Golf R -v- Golf GTI

[triode12]

At the end of the day, I can summarise this discussion by comparing to it to paying to see a Minogue but only getting Danni....

I think Danni is hotter than Kylie actually. I like a bit more meat on the bones.

[Corey_R]

I think Danni is hotter than Kylie actually. I like a bit more meat on the bones.

Yeah, Danni is way hotter than Kylie...

OH WAIT A SECOND! Are we talking "Stock" Danni vs "Stock" Kylie or "modified" Danni vs "modified" Kylie????. That sways the argument a bit... you could say that post modifications, plastic Kylie is nicer than plastic Danni... but hey... who's setting the rules here?

[adzy]

Off topic Corey!

Ps: Danni deserves a good motor boat'n

[zbeasty]

Shannon is actually in a pretty good position to comment on GTI vs R on a long, fairly twisty run given there was 1 R and plenty of GTI's on the run up the Putty 2 weekends ago. My R only has engine mods while I think nearly all of the GTI's had engine/suspension/brakes and I didn't have any problem keeping up . I was maintaining corner speed but could get the power down earlier out of the corners with AWD traction. I did still manage to get the TC light flashing out of a couple of (dry) hairpins so you still need to consider modulation of the right foot even in the R.

[dave_r]

Corey, we'd need appropriate images to analyse the technical details of such a comparison.

[Whistler]

How often would a Golf R, or a GTI, or a Scirocco see any thing that resembles a dirt road, gravel driveways aside?

On my mates cattle farm just this long weekend! His GTI was lost in my R's dust (or mud, since it was pouring down)
He got stuck twice. Was a hoot!

[Whistler]

The Scirocco is a better sports car than Golf R exactly because is FWD, lighter, with a nicer stance and better looking IMO. This endless discussion about part time AWD's superiority over a good FWD setup makes me yawn.
I would have bought an R for driving in the 100-200 km/h on autobahn since it is such a great all-rounder grand tourer. Problem is, there's none in Oz, so...

Wow. Each to their own I guess. But a better "sports" car BECAUSE it's front drive?
If you want a sports car I'm afraid you'll need to spend another 50k+. Read Porsche, jag, Beamer-m, Amg, fezzas, lotus, etc
All use a combination of rear or AWD. There are no front drive sports cars.
Golfs, and their kin aren't sports cars, they're hot hatches. Some models are "sporty" but not sports cars.

[adzy]

Wow. Each to their own I guess. But a better "sports" car BECAUSE it's front drive?
If you want a sports car I'm afraid you'll need to spend another 50k+. Read Porsche, jag, Beamer-m, Amg, fezzas, lotus, etc
All use a combination of rear or AWD. There are no front drive sports cars.
Golfs, and their kin aren't sports cars, they're hot hatches. Some models are "sporty" but not sports cars.

Sorry but thats the biggest load of BS I have ever heard! A sports car is a vehicle designed for high speed driving and maneuverability. Sports cars have been either spartan or luxurious, but good handling, minimum weight, and high performance are requisite. (wiki)

With cars like the Integra type R, Cooper S, R26R and Focus RS out there not to mention the success of the original mini's in motorsport back in the day.. your own personal opinion is well off.

[Banzai]

IMHO, if it has more than 2 seats it isn't a real sports car.
It might be a GT, a Sporting Sedan or Coupe, Hot Hatch etc.

Driving a sports car as its maker intended is a selfish past time that is uncomfortable for, and hampered by the presence of passengers. Navigators are acceptable.

Sports cars may not be as fast as some of the Sedans, Coupes and GTs that now abound but they should be lighter, more responsive and a lot more involving to drive. Proper sports cars have no pretensions about being a fast shopping trolley, baby carrier or off-roader. They should have excellent chassis and suspensions. They don't need to be technological showcases but they should have a carefully matched assembly of appropriate technologies. Technology and driver aids should not buffer the driver from the road feel. The best ones are rear wheel drive but AWDs may be okay provided they are rear-wheel biased.

I've been driving 2-seater sports cars for over a quarter of a century and know what I like.

Re the argument a few posts up about getting power to the ground in a GTI vs R. Standard tyres on a GTI are pathetic and don't have enough grip to allow full acceleration of the line. With a stage 2 kit I get excessive wheelspin and worse, tramp, in 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Traction control is a poor way of limiting this problem. The car really does need grippier tyres, a better secured drivetrain, a proper diff and firmer springs. However I'm sure VW's customer research shows people want to ride around in their lounge chairs rather than something that handles well without electronic aids but has a bit more NVH.

Having said that, I wouldn't touch an R because it is AWD with front wheel bias and worse, it is no longer available in 2-door. I gave up rally driving when I moved into sports cars so I don't need to worry about thrashing cars on grave roads. RWD is still fun though. AWD might be quicker in some conditions but mostly it is just boring.

BTW, 2-door cars tend to be stronger and lighter than 4-door equivalents. Better structural rigidity as the chassis/shell is less compromised by openings, lighter because it doesn't need as much door paraphernalia or chassis reinforcement.

[Ideo]

How often would a Golf R, or a GTI, or a Scirocco see any thing that resembles a dirt road, gravel driveways aside?

In my case every couple of weeks. Plenty of trips out around Orange, have family that live down long dirt roads, quite often go up hiking in state forests, so need to drive up dirt roads.

Plenty of pics of my r in action in these conditions. It's usually covered in at least one layer of dirt.