Golf R -v- Golf GTI

[SilvrFoxX]

Yeah and over on the Vortex US forums they are bitching big time

[Corey_R]

Oh! The poor babies!
With the prices of cars over there, and the prices of aftermarket accessories, I'm finding it very difficult to give a damn

[dave_r]

Sounds awesome to me, means more aftermarket products and decent prices so we don't have to get raped locally!

[SilvrFoxX]

Sounds awesome to me, means more aftermarket products and decent prices so we don't have to get raped locally!

hmmmm local raping...

Jokes aside.. different market over there just isn't the volume so not sure just how great the range is..

[WhiteJames]

Had the pleasure of recently being involved in the Volkswagen Driver Experience Day in abysmal weather conditions. The lead driving instructor stated that he has never run a driving course in such terrible weather conditions. If this was a V8 supercar race, it would be well & truly cancelled. I scored the first driver position in the Golf R with 19” wheels for the day with the back-up vehicle being the Golf GTD. One of my team players called in sick, which gave me a bit more time in the Golf R than most other participants. The laps I had in the Golf R and Golf GTD at Eastern Creek Raceway helped shed some light on the differences between each vehicle and their specific suspension tunes. Rest assured that the Golf R is much faster in the straight line than the Golf GTD. It was the mid-corner speed, esp. on neutral throttle that the all-wheel drive Golf R suffered more than I expected.

From past experiences, I’ve come to know that the older & heavier R32 Golf has less outright grip mid-corner than the Golf GTI. The Golf R exhibited similar traits of having less grip mid corner than the GTD due to 1) the extra heft; 2) the firmer suspension tune that appears to work better in dry than in very wet conditions. The Golf R wanted to let go and slide much earlier than I anticipated when playing with the throttle & hunting for the threshold of grip level on the longer-winding corners. The Golf R was less forgiving in the wet that required greater concentration to judge the most appropriate corner entry speeds and mid corner throttle roll-on to keep the Golf R balanced and neutral in the very wet constant radius corners.

In comparison, the Golf GTD was too slow in a straight line for this type of driving and not ideally a track focussed vehicle. Both the GTD and Golf R were sure footed down the straight in terrible weather conditions. The GTD apparently runs a suspension tune about 10% softer than the Golf GTI. This aided the Golf GTD in the very wet conditions and allowed the vehicle to lean into corners and use the grip of its tyres more efficiently than the Golf R. The softer suspension tune made the Golf GTD more controllable and forgivable at the limit of adhesion, making it less taxing on the driver to muscle the car around the track in a smooth & controlled manner with slight to mild understeer on the longer-winding corners. The XDS does work better on faster flowing roadways/track than the tighter pieces of tarmac. The steering in the Golf R in normal mode is tangibly heavier than the steering weight in the Golf GTD and Golf GTI. Thinking that the Golf R would be foolproof in inclement conditions, but even with slight steering input & lower level g-forces when driving through the rivers of water flowing across the track in many places, the Golf R lost its composure sliding sideways & aquaplaning a more so than the Golf GTD.

Overall: The Golf R is a great drive for the track than the lesser Golf GTD. The R really shines between the 100kph to 200kph zone, with Eastern Creek being the perfect place to explore this zone. The Golf R’s enhanced qualities are not absolute. Mid corner grip, even in very wet conditions, is less than that of the lesser Golf’s imo; the stiffer more focussed R suspension tune may prove advantageous in the dry, but offered less grip mid-corner in inclement weather conditions. Of course the extra weight doesn’t help. The GTD would make a perfect general day to day all-rounder vehicle, perhaps more so than the Golf GTI in that it has a softer more comfortable suspension tune and useable low down power with added benefit of improved fuel economy. I was surprised to see an improvement in reduction of turbo lag in the Mark 6 GTD compared to the earlier model MKV Golf 103TDI. Both perform very admirably considering there respective intended uses.

Cheers
WJ

[adzy]

You mention the R would slide sideways in some circumstances, was this mainly due to a sudden lift off or under power with drive transferring to the rear wheels? And when the tail did let go did the ESP intrude early?
Cheers WJ

[WhiteJames]

The driver training day was centred on pushing the motor vehicles beyond their limits to experience the effects of the electronic safety devices, and then continuing to drive around those electronic aids. I took a different approach, an old school approach of tentatively feeling your way around the grip with a slow in/fast out method, rather than just attacking every corner with ESC and TC working overtime to get you out of trouble. The only time I felt the ESC cut in was on my second lap where the instructor asked me to brake firmly & early - too early imo – I let the throttle roll on into the corner to make up some space to the Golf R in front I was planning to overtake later on. Ended up carrying a tad too much speed into the second corner, backing off to tighten the line on corner entry. Once the front tucked in and the rear end came around I got on a light throttle with a slight degree of opposite lock for a nice power through the 210 degree uphill left hander, until ESC rained in all the fun. The other slides were minor with ESC not tangibly noticeable and in all cases, it was around mid-corner with neutral throttle application trying the find that ideal corner balance, where basically the chassis is relying on it’s on own talent, rather than the Haldex system to shuffle power to & fro.

It was a very wet day with a lot of standing water and streams running across the track at low points at the rear of the track. During the slalom, the rain was so heavy, we had difficulty seeing to the other end of the witches hats about 100m away. Still managed to wind up the GTD to 160kph and Golf R to 175-180kph with no major aquaplaning on the main straight in heavy rain. The specific Blue colour of the Golf R looks much better in person, but still think the leather seats are terrible ... give me cloth any day. I’d also prefer the 18” wheels, rather than the 19”. They suit the Golf better. The Golf R supplied to me seemed to be a lot more perky than the other two examples. This one had about 1500km-2000km on the odo, but definitely felt stronger than the other two examples I sampled earlier. The Golf R definitely feels better on a fast track at higher speed than around the short and curleys, which fits its high speed grand tourer/racer design brief perfectly.

Cheers.
WJ

[adzy]

Sounds good, as in the r can be gently balanced into a bit of oversteer rather than having to be ham fisted to get it into oversee but then I still don't like the unswitchable esp as 'on the track' it would be very rewarding to be able to balance a slide via throttle and steering inputs. Hopefully the pre 2012 models will be able to have the switchable software flashed onto them.
Good write up mate.. love the detail.. as usual from you now when do you start working for Evo magazine

[dave_r]

I was right up there with the people saying ESP needs to have a fully off ability but in all seriousness after the last track day, it didn't bother me in the slightest. Only noticed it like twice in the raining sessions and it probably saved my bacon lol. Both times I went in way too hot to turn 2/3 (Sandown) and got out of shape. In my previous cars, it would have been brown pants for sure but the amount of confidence the AWD and ESC/TC systems provided was impressive enough to make it a non-event!

The R was definitely not hard to get into an oversteer but felt very controllable while doing so (wet or dry), probably not the quickest way around the corner though! Was a vast difference from my previous RWD cars.

In the spirit of this thread, I still say the R is the way to go (and not to justify my own purchase). On the road, on the track, the R is just great fun while being predictable and forgiving to drive (we're not professionals so this is important IMO). And that doesn't change wet or dry. I really only backed off about 10% in the rain (braking a bit earlier) on the track and at no point was it ever uncomfortable or white knuckle experience. It was amazing to be able to drive that hard in horrible conditions and not have it spit you out the other end looking worse for wear!

[zbeasty]

WJ, did you take note of corner entry, mid corner and corner exit speeds in both cars. If you were 10km/h faster in the R than the GTD this would have a significant impact on the way that they felt. I do think that the 18's would have made a difference as their slightly smaller contact patch would have helped grip in the wet. That said I'm happy to accept the small compromises that the 19's have as IMHO they look so much better than the 18's.