Golf R -v- Golf GTI

[WhiteJames]

My GTI was run -within the guidelines of the owner’s manual using the paddles 40-50 percent of the time to ensure motor was being loaded and unloaded with turbo on boost most of the time. My GTI rarely sees the light of the day during week-days. The GTI is a weekender and long distance tourer. I’m surprised that this thread has gone this far with me saying that the Golf R is the one to have as a Grand Tourer when that’s what I predominately use my GTI for.

Read quite a bit about the Wavetrac Limited Slip Differential. A new American design that VolkswagenRacing.co.uk are apparently using and selling. Ian @ Rennenhaus had a Wavetrac fitted to his 118TSI at the MOTOR magazine ‘Hot Tuner’ shootout. The diff manages to lock and unlock according to load being applied, rather than having a set locking mechanism. Wavetrac can be used with XDS/EDL electronic diff. XDS saves weight and can be easier on the driveline, but nothing beats a proper LSD.

Wavetrac® Differential - A torque biasing differential with a difference

WaveTrac - LSD - Limited Slip Differentials (New Applications !)

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The harder polyurethane bushes, engine mounts, anti-lift kits can reduce the NVH with added vibration and noise. Good if you‘re looking for every 10th of a second on the track or at targa. I’d rather stick the OEM rubber bushes, mounts, etc and keep the refined NVH for street use.

Sam:

Linear springs would be the go for the track or targa. Not sure stiffer linear springs would be an ideal match with the comfort/sports HPA Motorsport SHS coilover damping. Best speak with the KW distributor. I’d be inclined to swap them for the poor cousin of the KW Variant 1 - ST coilover supplied by HPA Motorsport for about $800USD + shipping. The ST is basically the same coilover as KW, but much cheaper, without lifetime warranty & made in Canada. You could sell the HPA KW SHS and recoup some of the purchase price to put towards a more aggressively tuned ST coilover. My 2 cents worth. Personally ... I’d be going the KW Comfort Coilovers or the HPA Motorsport KW SHS Coilover for added comfort on long drives.

Cheers
WJ

[Sammy125TDi]

The harder polyurethane bushes, engine mounts, anti-lift kits can reduce the NVH with added vibration and noise. Good if you‘re looking for every 10th of a second on the track or at targa. I’d rather stick the OEM rubber bushes, mounts, etc and keep the refined NVH for street use.

Sam:

Linear springs would be the go for the track or targa. Not sure stiffer linear springs would be an ideal match with the comfort/sports HPA Motorsport SHS coilover damping. Best speak with the KW distributor. I’d be inclined to swap them for the poor cousin of the KW Variant 1 - ST coilover supplied by HPA Motorsport for about $800USD + shipping. The ST is basically the same coilover as KW, but much cheaper, without lifetime warranty & made in Canada. You could sell the HPA KW SHS and recoup some of the purchase price to put towards a more aggressively tuned ST coilover. My 2 cents worth. Personally ... I’d be going the KW Comfort Coilovers or the HPA Motorsport KW SHS Coilover for added comfort on long drives.

Cheers
WJ

I might keep the standard springs in that case WJ. The stock bushes will be going back in with the camber plates install.

I know this has been done 1000 times over.. but with cash to blow... PSS10 or KWV3?

[WhiteJames]

KW V3 –v- Bilstein PSS10:

Tough choice.

PSS10 Bilstein: Kills the KW V3 for ease of adjustability. Be mindful that the adjustments are for rebound & compression are not independent. This means that set too soft, the coil spring can be underdamped – set too hard and the coil spring are over damped. This could be a factor when driving on the varied sorts of roadways. PSS10 Bilstein do not lower as much as the KW V3, which tends towards less spring rate than the KW V3 as the lower you go, the harder spring rate you require to stop from bottoming out. Most street coilovers have progressive rate springs as PSS10 and KW have, so actual spring rates are hard to come by. Bilstein run high pressure gas versus low pressure gas in the KW V3. Higher pressure gas and Bilstein valving are great for a feedback, but not all the time esp. on country bitumen roadways for extended periods of time (>1-2 hours). Bilstein have inverted pistons which could prove to be stronger for the track. Jury is out on the noise factor on the PSS – some complain, some don’t.

KW V3: Has independent adjustment for low speed compression damping and rebound damping that allows you to tailor ride handling mix. Low speed compression deals with the smooth racetrack bumps. High speed compression valving deals with the bit hits on pot holes, large troughs and culverts, if struck hard and fast enough. KW take much effort to adjust as there is no knob or click (allen key used to open & close the pin & washer spring) and the rear end struts have to be removed for rebound adjustment on the Golf, which is a pain. KW V3 would work better once set to your optimum level of damping esp. on rougher country roadways as the pre-set non-adjustable high-speed compression softens the big blows, regardless of how stiff you have the low speed compression setting. In contrast – the PSS10 seems to be less varied in high and low speed compression – you either have them set on soft, medium or hard. KW V3 are more like a watered down Koni FSD in that they compensate for low-speed and high speed compression hits without any need in change of adjustment. In terms of noise, KW V3 are very quiet – better than OE Volkswagen Sachs dampers, and there are no reported issues with spring bind clonking or tug’n’release noises as can occur on other brands of coilovers. KW V3 may give a bit away in terms of roadway feel to the PSS10 Bilstein due to specific types of valving. KW V3 make up for it in the difference between low and high speed compression ride comfort making them more liveable, if harder to adjust. The KW V3 are basically like a Koni FSD/Eibach Prokit coilover as the springs in KW are Eibach and the valving is the same or very similar to the Koni Strut dampers (as are the adjustment for both KW & Koni).

It may depend on your own preference for what type of feel you prefer and type of adjustment. I like the Koni/KW type of valving and would opt for the KW V3 second time around. They are so good on rough Aus outback roadways with little trade-off in feel on the smoother tarmac.

H&R run similar or the same valving as the Bilstein PSS coilovers. Here is a review of Jose’s R32 (aka JIG on other forum).

Review: H&R Street Performance Coilovers - VW GTI Forum / VW Rabbit Forum / VW R32 Forum / VW Golf Forum - Golfmkv.com

Jose swapped his H&R coilovers (non-adjustable) for KW Clubsport when he supercharged his R32. It’s the same R32 as shown in the latest Feb MOTOR magazine from Ramspeed. PM Jose as he has spent a lot of time with the H&R (aka Bilstein) and KW Clubsport (KW V3 with linear/greater spring rate & camber plates) for a long term review of each.

WHITE JAMES: Suspension & Wheel Reviews - VW GTI Forum / VW Rabbit Forum / VW R32 Forum / VW Golf Forum - Golfmkv.com

Cheers
WJ

[WhiteJames]

Forgot to mention that KW appear to be the only aftermarket coilover supplier in Germnay with their very own Hydraulic 7 post rig that can replicate racetracks and roadways. F1 teams use this sort of tech.

KW hydraulic 7-Post rig /// For applications in the automobile industry and in motor sports

This may be one reason that KW offer great NVH and do not spring bind clonk or tug'n'release. The machine may take out the trial & error involved in working all this out. Having the machine probably explains why KW coilovers are more expensive than other brands. Also may explain why KW supplies different product codes for DSG and non-DSG Golfs as the DSG adds another 20kg up front on the Golf. The machine should be able to work out the optimum spring and damper rate for each type of Golf and gearbox type.

Cheers
WJ

[Corey_R]

Forgot to mention that KW appear to be the only aftermarket coilover supplier in Germnay with their very own Hydraulic 7 post rig that can replicate racetracks and roadways. F1 teams use this sort of tech.

As do most NASCAR Sprint Cup teams.

I'd be worried if in this day and age people are buying suspension from companies that don't have a 7 post rig!

But then given suspension companies involvement and support in motorsports, including NASCAR where (from the top of my head) both Penske Racing Shocks and Bilstein (maybe others) are both heavily involved, I completely doubt K&W are the only suspension company with a 7 post rig.

[WhiteJames]

Claims made by KW that they are the only guys in Germany with the 7-post rig are lofty ... but it's their claim on the KW website.

Speaking of NASCAR .... this is an article on what a 7-post hyrdraulic jig involves:

Seven-Post Shaker Rig - Suspension Dynamics Machine - Circle Track

You can hire a 7-post hydraulic jig for about USD $5000 per day if you're looking for that custom set-up taking into account lightweight wheels, upgraded brake calipers/rotors, and other changes in unsprung mass.

Cheers
WJ

[WhiteJames]

Here's a video of Volkswagen's Hydraulic Test Rig with Golf on board:

YouTube - 2010 VW Golf Chassis Testing

Volkswagen's version takes account of lateral loads in addition to verticle loads - cream of the crop version.

Cheers
WJ

[WhiteJames]

Apart from only being a 3-door and manual (for now) and limited dealer presence in Aus - I can why the Renault RS250 is scooping up all the sports hatch acollades:

2010 Renault Megane RS250 Cup Trophee | GoAuto - Our Opinion

In the real world if inner-urban traffic, uneven roads and speed humps, the RS is equally impressive, with a firm but supple ride quality that somehow belies its relatively simple (but significantly altered for its RS application) torsion beam rear-end design. We found the French car more comfy than the standard Golf GTI set-up. Here, the steering continues to feel uncorrupted, linear and extremely faithful to input, to ensure that the driver stays connected to the road.

You can even order heated and leather seats and save yourself a few thousand dollars – but a Golf GTI with the optional adaptive dampers and DSG dual-clutch manual automated gearbox will feel more like a luxury GT than the RS.

Do I buy a Renault Megane RS250 today or wait 6 months for a GTI/R - see this thread for supplier delays on Volkswagen parts:

http://www.caradvice.com.au/101189/v...e-for-one-day/

Cheers
WJ

[WhiteJames]

Fuel consumption: MK6 –v- MK5

Is the MK6 Golf GTI more frugal than the MK5 Golf GTI?

After about 19,500km and 8 months of ownership:

It appears to me that under constant throttle and light engine loads (freeway cruising) the fuel consumption between the MK6 and MK5 is the basically the same. The MK6 Golf excels in fuel economy when the engine is working harder under additional load.

For example:
Drive from Sydney to Queanbeyan/Canberra on the Hume Hwy has the MK6 about 7.1litres/100km, whereas the MK5 would be around the 7.6l mark. Similar thing when driving from Sydney – Wollongong – Macquarie Pass Hillclimb – Queanbeyan/Canberra with the MK6 delivering about 7.4l/100km and the MKV about 8.0l/100km. These 2 drives involve climb from sea level to a higher altitude, with the later two comprising a 25 minute mountain climb mainly using 2nd and 3rd gears.

The trip from Queanbeyan/Canberra to Sydney on Hume is from higher altitude to sea level most of the way which involves coasting lighter engine loads with the MK6 and MK5 GTI both doing 6.8l per 100km. Finally ... trip from Sydney to Queensland and return on Pacific Hwy along east coast of NSW has both MK6 and MK5 about the same (6.9l per 100km) with the majority of the drive fairly flat land cruising.

In a nutshell ... the EA888 motor in the MK6 has improved fuel consumption under varied throttle input and under more extreme engine loads imo.

Cheers
WJ

[Pepe]

So to summarise, VWA's claims that the Mk6 is more efficient than the Mk5 is true....

In other news, the sun rose in the east today and is setting in the west.