Golf R -v- Golf GTI

[Fab_R]

Here's the H&R springs sway bar application showing Mark 6 Golf GTI and Golf R H&R sway bars being the same product code & size f to r. No need for sway bars on the Mark 6 GTI - only needed for the Golf R imo.

Volkswagen Suspension Applications || H&R Special Springs, LP

Cheers
WJ

Now the question is, what size would you go for on the R WJ?

Very interested

[WhiteJames]

See that Golf R body roll in the pics from drive.com.au. The extra 130kgs being tossed around. The drive.com.au article is in direct contrast to earlier themotorreport.com.au article I posted. I’m siding with drive.com.au article re: Golf R as their observations are akin my views of the Golf R.

Volkswagen Golf R review | hot-hatches

The single suspension tune still delivers the most supple ride here. And while there's an inevitable trade-off at the track, where the R feels noticeably softer than its rivals, the Golf is far from out of its league.It's just a case of the R's dynamics being capable of reaching the finals, rather than it being a genuine contender for the minor premiership. It's the first to wilt under the pressure of a flat-out track attack - the first to push wide (understeer) in corners when toying with these cars' limits. The R has enough steering precision and throttle adjustability to keep most drivers interested, though.It's a similar story on the road, even if a bonus for R drivers is that, while the steering lacks feel, there is none of the STI's nasty kickback or the RS's mild torque steer.

Type & Size of H&R sway bars: Depends on your aims in suspension tuning.

I’d highly recommend the small set of H&R sway bars for a daily driver, esp. on stock Golf R suspension with or without DCC. Set the front on soft and rear on hard.

I prefer the comfort/sport tune with a near neutral - slightly understeer bias for a daily driven street vehicle. The stock Golf R suspension is very similar to the HPA Motorsport KW SHS re: sports/comfort kit, so no change needed on damper rates in this regard imo. The Golf R has a nice GT type of suspension tune without or without DCC.

Small sway bars allow the standard street tyres to work with greater effect on public roadways where grip is limited. Large bars may quickly find the limitations of the street tyres, so an upgrade to semi-slicks maybe required due to the extra rigidity introduced into the chassis in terms of less suspension compliance that aftermarket sway bars offer. Suspension compliance is very important for a street car due to the variety of roadways conditions & gradients being encountered.

If I was running a Golf R, my main aim would be to keep as much as the Golf’s independence in the independence suspension and only tune out some of that push understeer. Others may be looking to run semi slicks & coilovers for best times on the track, targa, or hill climb. In this case you’d want sports coilovers and large sway bars and probably stiffer suspension bushes & engine mounts.

For predominately street driving, small matched set of H&R bars are more than enough for the daily grind as they really tighten up the chassis and cause a notable reduction in independence of one wheel bumps & gradients. The standard ride height of the Golf R is perfect imo.

The H&R adjustable solid sway bars come in a matched set: Small 26mm/22mm and Large 28mm/24mm. You can mix and match (26mm/24mm, etc) – although I’d be inclined to stick to the small size matched set for public roadways and run the front on soft setting and rear on hard setting for a near neutral chassis tune.

H&R do testing on places such as Nurburgring and Hockenheim with drivers that have much more experience than your average punter when it comes to chassis tuning. H&R recommend them as a matched pair or either small or large for best results with adjustments from hard to soft making a very notable difference to chassis tune.

If I was going further in terms of a sporty suspension tune for a daily driver – I’d opt for, in addition to the small H&R bars a set of sports coilovers and rebranded KW V1 coilovers or if on a budget – the ST coilovers from HPA Motorsport for @ $800 USD - otherwise KW V1, KW V2 or V3. I like H&R sway bars as they have Teflon coated bushes that do not make noise, never need oiling and offer a great balance for all types of roadways. I also like the KW kits as they are similar to Koni in their valving & operation and also offer great NVH (no spring bind, tug’n’release or lack of spring rebound clonk in the coilovers).

Cheers
WJ

[Corey_R]

Now the question is, what size would you go for on the R WJ?

Very interested

I'd be looking for more than just one person's opinion on the topic, because regardless of how knowledgable one person seems on the topic, opinions vary.

For example, WhiteJames posted an opinion and an expansion on his opinion in relation to sway bars on GTI's and R's. Yet the winners of the Motor Hot Tuner Challenge disagreed, and after another post to clarify by WJ, an advanced driver trainer who was heavily involved in setting up the winners, and the winner posted again.

Now, I don't know who WhiteJames is in real life. For all I know, he may be a well respected chassis engineer, he may run a race team, he may have won previous Motor Tuner challenges. I don't know. And I'm not saying that anything he says is wrong, since he has much more knowledge on the subject than I. But clearly there are differing opinions...

[dave_r]

Now the question is, what size would you go for on the R WJ?

Good question, have you spoken with Dean yet? He'd have to have a good idea!

The H&R adjustable solid sway bars come in a matched set: Small 26mm/22mm and Large 28mm/24mm. although I’d be inclined to stick to the small size matched set for public roadways and run the front on soft setting and rear on hard setting for a near neutral chassis tune.

That'd be what I'm aiming for but I want to see feedback from people who've actually done the mods to an R before committing myself.

[MkVIGTI]

sometimes it will do that if it didnt engage properly, with 'LC' engaged the car should sit nicely still with the brake on and hold its revs, if it doesnt hold revs, or trys to move off then its not engaged properly and you need to go through the process again. Remeber that this isn't a 'true' LC so its not by any means perfect

I've had my LC not engage properly twice now, the clutch was still engaged when my foot was on brakes. Going through the process again rectified it though.

[WhiteJames]

Good video footage from The Peak Performance Audi S3 that was in this year's 2010 Motor Mag Hot Tuner Performance Shootout. The Audi S3 is following a White MK6 GTI with a host of engine and suspensnion modifications:

YouTube - GOLF GTI vs Audi S3

Cheers
WJ

[Capercat]

I laughed when Robby sent me the link, puddles everywhere, well done to both.

[WhiteJames]

^Rocco: I can understand why you think the Golf R is more soft Grand Tourer than cut & thrust Race Car out of the box. You come from a MKV GTI with PSS10 Bilstein coilovers and Large size H&R sway bars to a Porsche Cayman ... both sharper instruments than the Golf R or MK6 Golf GTI. Although I did warn you i the past about going for the Large H&R sway bars in terms of ride & compliance. What suspension modifications is the guy in the White Golf GTI shown in the video running? Looks fairly tied down and a bit nervous in the rear-end on corner entry.
Cheers
WJ

[Capercat]

Large bars were certainly an overkill for the street, live & learn, although on smooth dry roads the ride is addictive! unfortunately Sydney roads are far from that.

[MkVIGTI]

The S3's AWD is really proving its worth in extremely wet conditions like this. Much more planted than the FWD GTI.