Golf R -v- Golf GTI

[Prodigy]

try wangarra VW as well....

'offers' for a car - haha u have to put a bid in to get an R.... who'd hav thought?

im thinking of upgrading my GTI in 3 years time (as I will try and do from now on) maybe i should put an order in for an R now??

Pretty sure Wangara only have a manual available at the moment.

[Happs]

Have you tried VW in Vic Park? They have a DSG and Manual R in the showroom. ( I test drove the DSG way back in late June)

try wangarra VW as well....

Thanks guys, have been looking at dealers north of the river (not that I won't or can't go south) so I'll give Vic Pk a try!!

[SilvrFoxX]

You can put a deposit down now.. that then locks your delivery date.. if you change your mind change your order

[WhiteJames]

ECU upgrades are going to favour the Golf R with AWD and compromise the Golf GTI in terms of low speed drivability. Have to mention that the GTI was running 40psi cold tyre pressure – can’t say how much the Golf R was running for tyre pressure. 40psi did contribute to some of the bounciness in over roadway undulations in the GTI. When compared to the hard core Jap offerings – the Golf R is criticised for pushing wide at around 8/10ths when negotiating the curves – this can be tuned out with a set of aftermarket adjustable sway bars – Ray had a set of H&R adjustable solid sway fitted front and rear to his R32 and it made a world of difference to reducing understeer around corners. I’m told that H&R now do a large size and small size of match sway bars for the new Golf R. Stick with the small bars for street on road tyres imo. Aftermarket sway bars are a compromise in terms of ride/handling mix – loss in one gains in the other – loss of suspension independence, lifting inside rear wheels hot hatch style, harsher ride on one wheel bumps and less room for error between grip and slip are some negatives for public roadway use,

The Golf R is essentially a vehicle built to perform at it best between faster autobhan speeds with a fair degree of understeer built in for higher speeds. The GTI built to perform better at lower speeds. The standard suspension in the GTI is tuned more so for the masses – this is where DCC comes in handy, inducing some genuine hot-hatch sportiness to the chassis and steering. Seems like the GTI in Sport is a greater step up from Normal than the Golf R in Sport – understandable given that the Golf R is already catering for a more focussed type of driver.

The Golf R feels faster because it is faster. The Golf R is tuned to be a bit firmer than the GTI, which masks the speed you’re travelling at. In contrast, the GTI feels faster at slower speeds due to the softer tuned suspension and small fast spooling turbo motor. It’s a bit like comparing and 1198S Ducati Super Sport –v- Ducati Monster Naked Bike. One is heavier, but much faster up top; the other lighter in weight with a detuned torque biased motor - on a tight twisty roadway, not much difference between the two; out on the open road - different story.

Ultimately: I’d have both Golf R and Golf GTI. Golf GTI for city use & very tight winding roadways with XDS and lighter weight advantage; the Golf R for highway cruising and faster flowing tourist routes with stronger top end, extra weight giving a refined ride and better balanced chassis front to rear that is a real benefit at higher speeds. On the other hand – a low mileage second hand R32 with a set of H&R sway bars (front soft/rear hard) & Haldex Gen III controller is not that far off the std Golf R in terms of driver enjoyment – minus the nicer Mark 6 interior.

Conjecture centred around utilisation of XDS electronic diff on the open roadway - It does come in handy in wet conditions in a proactive way – rather than reactively. It’s like a very intuitive form of traction control ...or... like a very watered down bobcat or army tank that brakes one side of the vehicle while power forward on the opposite side.

The price difference between my GTI and Golf R – like for like – is only 3-4K – perhaps 4-5K with 19” wheel option. Bugger all in other words. Neighbour Ray on the other hand had the price of his Golf R nudging 70K and was still disappointed he couldn’t option-up the overseas R - Racing lightweight wheels & other goodies on his proposed Golf R spec. A 6 – month wait is the biggest problem on either Golf R or GTI. I’m very happy with the Golf GTI, even though it would not cost much to swap into an R.

Cheers
WJ

[Jasonpb]

Thanks guys, have been looking at dealers north of the river (not that I won't or can't go south) so I'll give Vic Pk a try!!

I wouldn't waste your time with Vic Park, go straight to Wangarra. I am not sure how much Dermot (Wangarra) would have given me off both the cars if they wern't fleet cars but I am sure it would have been more than the $500 vic park offered me when purchasing $90k in cars.

[Converted]

I wouldn't waste your time with Vic Park...

I agree with Jasonpb, forget Vic park, speaking from personal experience.

[shakespeare]

I agree with Jasonpb, forget Vic park, speaking from personal experience.

I found Dermot @ Wangara to be of much more assistance than Vic Park, bought the wife's Jetta there 4 yrs ago and can still count the discount in 100's on one hand from there, I need to take off my shoes and socks and borrow my family's hands and feet to count Wangara's discount

[Prodigy]

I only mentioned going to Vic Park so he would have the opportunity to take a DSG R for a test drive seeing they are pretty scarce in Perth at the moment. As for ordering one, Wangara for sure.

[WhiteJames]

Aftermarket Perspective:

Would I make any changes to either the Golf R or Golf GTI in an attempt to fine tune them in respect to the second ‘Boat-Shed’ drive - bearing in mind that these roadways are undulating in many parts & lower speed with plenty of gradients & very curvy?


GOLF GTI – DCC

With XDS reducing understeer into corners, no need for any changes – just opt for DCC in ‘Sport’ which also creates great steering in addition to a notable step up in chassis control. A drop in ride height by 10m front/5mm rear would be nice, but not worth the effort with Dynamic Chassis Control. Otherwise, no need to change anything on the Golf GTI – DCC.


GOLF GTI – STD

My own observations along with other reports I’ve read suggest that for the tight undulating twisting curves, the non-DCC std GTI lacks a degree of body control. This is esp. prevalent in the manual, which appears to have softer springs up front as the manual gearbox is lighter than DSG unit as does not require stiffer front springs to compensate for this. I have driven the Manual GTI and DSG GTI back to back on this very same route, which resulted in me changing my order from Manual to DSG (Manual gear-throw too long for fast spooling turbo around these types of roadways; okay for faster flowing roadways).

If this route was my daily commute – I’d look at a set of KW Comfort Coilover Suspension – which should offer similar ride characteristic with a step up in chassis control in addition to offering a slight drop in ride height. Lower ride height will aid directional changes around the ‘Boat-Shed type of hilly bends as it did on the Golf R – although you will lose some throttle & brake adjustability in turns with less ride height to play with.

Spending protracted periods in the saddle on half-day to day country drives beckons for added comfort tuned into your ride, rather than a super-tight & hard chassis tune. For the harder core sports enthusiast that’s willing to trade off ride comfort for handling and doesn’t mind a 15-20mm drop over std suspension, frequents the track or does not spend long periods in the saddle on country drives - I’d look at the KW Variant Coilovers (hard to adjust - but KW don’t exhibit any spring bind, tug-n-release or rebound clonk).

No need to upgrade sway bars on the Mark 6 GTI as XDS takes care of understeer issues. A set of H&R small size sway bars for street will still improve the Mark GTI, but the trade-off in ride and lift off oversteer may not be worth the change for daily driver.


GOLF R – DCC & STD

The ride handling mix in both the Dynamic Chassis Control and Std Golf R is a fantastic blend of comfort and control. The Golf R is no Renault Clio Sport Cup in terms of pin-point accuracy – that’s not its design brief, being a Grand Tourer (GT) type hatchback.

I would think seriously about adding a set of small size H&R sway bars with the front set on ‘soft’ and the rear set on ‘hard’. This would dial out the factory induced understeer that causes the Golf R to push wide and lean hard on its outside front tyre driving around the low-speed corners. The H&R sway bars will work the tyres harder, make the chassis less adjustable on the brake & throttle and may not necessarily be an advantage in all conditions – esp. wet conditions where they may make the Golf R slower & less forgiving requiring greater skill & judgement in deciphering corner entry speeds and the degree of trial braking applied on corner entry.

A set of small size H&R sway bars will bring the Golf R much closer to the handling performance to the finely tuned hard core Jap offerings (EVO/STI) when negotiating the series of corners. The Golf R pushing wide on low speed corners has been a criticism of all three Australian motoring magazine reviews of the Golf R against the hard-core Jap offerings and it’s also a criticism against the Golf GTI with XDS – the GTI with XDS understeering less than the Golf R on the tight-twising routes. Part of this understeer issue may be due to the Haldex Gen IV system; other part due to suspension tune with a factory induced understeer bias that forces the driver to lift off the gas as the front outside tyre loads up & pushes wide when accelerating around & out of corners.


Cheers
WJ

[SilvrFoxX]

So WJ have you placed your order for an R yet or are you still struggling with the arguement