Golf R -v- Golf GTI

[WhiteJames]

Golf GTI:

The Golf GTI with DSG and DCC had about similar amount of lack of turbo lag. The turbo in the GTI doesn’t hit as hard, but spools up to max boost faster. The faster spooling relates to full or part throttle applications. The Renault Twin Scroll Turbo has a linear surge up to 6500-7,000rpm, whereas it’s game over for the GTI at 6,000rpm.

The Renault ‘Extreme’ throttle setting does wonders for the Renaults feel good and fun factor when hitting the loud pedal. The GTI counters with greater responsiveness in the actual motor itself (not throttle sensitivity) with improved fuel metering of the 6 hole injectors and four lobe camshaft fuel pump actuator. Both leave the Golf R for dead in terms of fuel metering, turbo lag and throttle sensitivity. The Golf R’s feels lethargic under 4500rpm compared to either of these two and like Anthony Mudine’s last fight, seems to lack substance to back that big talking R for race moniker.

Although you’re travelling slower in the Golf GTI, the motor plays a bigger part in the GTI. Part due to the less focussed chassis tuning of the GTI to accommodate for all types of purchaser demographics. It’s the all-rounder sensible hot hatch that sacrifices fun for refinement. The Golf GTI does win the tractability test when asked to pull up a hill in top gear. The turbo instantly spools up like a diesel freight train. The Renault RS250 has difficulty moping around town in 5th and 6th gear, making for an unpleasant experience and struggled to accelerate in top gear on the uphill tractability test.

The GTI has traction control lighting up incessantly when either pulling out of 90 degree slip roads from stationary position or on take-off in a straight line. So much so, when compared to the Renault Megane and its LSD, it embarrassing. The DSG does provide an advantage in that there is less electronic interference from stop to go in the GTI; although the Manual GTI does have this problem as does the Renault Megane RS250.

The GTI immediately telegraphs a lighter feeling to its controls and suspension tune when out on the road. Smooth roadways in town have the GTI feeling slightly overdamped in relation to the low speed compression of the dampers relative to spring rate. This makes for a busy ride with the GTI incessantly bobbing up and down on small high frequency roadway undulations. This is not evident in the Megane RS250 and it was the more comfortable of the two in town at 60kph and 80kph – surprisingly.

Large compression suspension hits are noisier in the GTI, indicating that the high speed compression of the GTI’s dampers and spring rate is less than that of the Megane, which offers greater chassis control. On medium level bumps in the roadway, the DCC GTI and Megane RS250 would be judged about equal. The GTI always manages to have an underlying suppleness about its ride comfort with DCC, but this also detracts from driver as opposed to the standard dampers in the Renault Megane RS250. Remember that the DCC in the Golf GTI was run in ‘Sport’ mode.

GTI is also slightly more bouncy in the rear end and carries more understeer in the lower speed corners on corner entry. The EDL diff does a good job of keeping understeer at bay mid-corner and on corner exit, but never fails to quell that inside unruly wheel scrabbling for traction and simply doesn’t offer the sheer grip levels that the Renault and LSD provides. The GTI motor simply overwhelms the chassis tune and front end grip indicating that any further power upgrade is only going to compromise a vehicle already at its power and grip threshold in the lower gears.

Ideally, I like the mate the front end of the Megane RS250 with the rear multilink end of the GTI. The rear fully independent multilink suspension of the GTI is never upset and holds its own with an absence of bump steer on mid-corner unsettling features in the roadway. DCC does a fantastic job of keeping the GTI level and flat in both lateral body roll and pitch/squat fore and aft and has sophistication in suspension tech over the Renault Megane RS250, which feels to be a rudimentary chassis in refinement when the going gets tough.

Where the GTI falls down is that it’s not tuned for the enthusiast driver, rending it safe and secure, but ultimately a tad boring, clinical and inert in this present company. The GTI had the ability to match the Renault in terms of mid corner speed & handling, esp. at higher speeds, but falls short in terms of driver appeal. The sophistication is not put to its highest use in the GTI, rather catering for the wide demographics of buyers for this vehicle. The Renault has an advantage of catering for a smaller target market in terms of handling, grip and fun factor, which makes it the more focussed drive.

Brakes were not test to full capacity as it would be unfair to the Renault by virtue of having 3 occupants rather than the 2 occupants in the GTI. The larger Brembo brakes in the Renault were better modulated with a linear feel; whereas the GTI brakes were sporadic in retardation. Seating positions in both vehicles are very good, with the Golf offering that bit more versatility in steering wheel adjustment. Both the Jacky Cloth and Recaro seats grip the driver well. The Recaro seats in the Megane do feel that tad bit wider in the seat back than the standard seats in the Golf GTI.

Summary to follow ...

[WhiteJames]

Summary:

Golf GTI:
My pick for refinement, ease of use, interior class and polish, technology and the best all-rounder in this company.

Renault Megane RS250:
The true driver’s hot-hatch. Delivers fun in spades and definitely the pick for a back road blast or mountain climb. Despite the rudimentary chassis design, the tuning of the chassis is second to none and the LSD coupled with Revo-knuckle is a revelation for lifting the game in outright fwd grip and absence of torque steer.

And what of the Golf R:
If you’re looking for a grand tourer to cover vast distances with ease, the Golf R is for you.
If you’re looking for driver appeal, look towards the Renault Megane Sport RS250.
The Renault RS250 has now rendered AWD a non-essential.

Where would WJ put his coin if he was to purchase another hot-hatch today?

I go for the Renault Megane RS250 Trophee in White for around 50K, or the same price as my Golf GTI.
Yes. The Renault Megane RS250 is that good as an enthusiast’s driver’s fun hot-hatch.
It would mean that I’d have to put up with no DCC, 3 doors and a manual gearbox – but the driver appeal makes up for it.

Special Thanks.
Thanks to Sales Manager Sean Patterson at Melrose Automobiles, Melrose Drive, Canberra, ACT – The home of Renault in the National Capital. Sales Manager Sean Patterson has several Renault Megane RS250 Trophee vehicles for immediate delivery. Feel free to call him for a test drive. You will not be disappointed.

PICS:

See link to WJ Suspension Thread for pics of the Renault Megane RS250 Trophee.

http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showth...100863&page=15

Cheers.
WJ

[Ideo]

Cheers, great detailed info there.

The Renault really is a great little car. Your summary is the exact reason I went for the Golf R, but I would not be too upset if I suddenly came into possession of the Renault either.

[REXman]

Good write up WJ. Interesting points. Some I share. Some I dont ofcourse. Like "feeling" the six hole injectors sounds a bit of a marketing bash tbh and "in your head" more than anything. I can agree with the GTI being more responsive though.

And I agree with most of your summary. I dont about the comment of driver appeal. The R appeals to me to drive more than any of the other 2 cars you mentioned, that is why I bought it. Ive had cars with wings and blow off valves etc.. so Im not a cardigan wearer and I know what I like.

And If you mean the RS250 is the more track focused car.. I couldnt agree more!

Good write up though I got through it all.

[Corey_R]

I had a look at the photos that WJ posted of the RS250.

Either the more I look at the RS250, the more I dislike it, or it just looks better in real life than in photos.
Or maybe it's just a case that in photos I've the time to look at and absorb the details.. I don't know - but I initially liked it when I saw it at the Sydney AIMS, and I'm disliking it more and more now...

[zbeasty]

The baby brother Clio is a much better looking car imo. The problem I have with both of them is that they are only available as a 3 door and that doesn't suit me.

Would also have to say I disagree with WJ's assertion that the RS250 front end bite etc makes awd nonessential. I think if you tried the same on wet roads there would be a marked difference in the speed you could carry in the fwd car vs the awd car.

[Corey_R]

The baby brother Clio is a much better looking car imo.

Yeah, I prefer the Clio too.

[triode12]

Test drove the Clio today - not my cup of tea.

Great handling but you really have to work the gears and keep it in high revs.

[bwen]

Would also have to say I disagree with WJ's assertion that the RS250 front end bite etc makes awd nonessential. I think if you tried the same on wet roads there would be a marked difference in the speed you could carry in the fwd car vs the awd car.

Why would anyone be driving fast enough for AWD to be essential in wet conditions anyway. AWD might be superior when it comes to giving traction off the line but whilst exitting corners FWD and RWD still have the advantage of less drive train loss.

[REXman]

I had a look at the photos that WJ posted of the RS250.

Either the more I look at the RS250, the more I dislike it, or it just looks better in real life than in photos.
Or maybe it's just a case that in photos I've the time to look at and absorb the details.. I don't know - but I initially liked it when I saw it at the Sydney AIMS, and I'm disliking it more and more now...

+1. at the motor show it looked pretty nice in a "spoilers, aggressive" way.

I'm seeing photos of them now, and I even saw one cruising in silver.. Reminds me of the lure of the bug eye Rex. You either love it or hate it. I'm not a fan unfortunately.

The baby brother Clio is a much better looking car imo. The problem I have with both of them is that they are only available as a 3 door and that doesn't suit me.

Would also have to say I disagree with WJ's assertion that the RS250 front end bite etc makes awd nonessential. I think if you tried the same on wet roads there would be a marked difference in the speed you could carry in the fwd car vs the awd car.

+1 here too. AWD is great particularly in adverse conditions. On you tube there is great example of the Ford Focus RS, up against the R on some snow.

And even though the RS is a great car on the track with 224KWs and a great version of FWD, there is no contest on the snow - where the RS literally can't even get off the line and the R wins by around 30 car lengths.

And not mention if you do big modifications to the motor for quarter mile and acceleration tests, the AWD will help there too..

There is definitely a place for AWD in my world.