Golf R Observations and Questions

[NiNo_LoCo]

great to hear Corey.

What brands are you considering for the intake?

[weewilly]

Corey, Thank you for the reply and concise as always review.

[Corey_R]

great to hear Corey.

What brands are you considering for the intake?

There's the Evolution MotorSports V-Flow Intake which is what Fab_R is using. Hope that's the right part.
Then the VF Accessories Air Intake. This is the CAI that the GIAC Extreme MKV GTI Pirelli boys are using.
An interesting option is the Forge Twintake Induction System
Another option from Japan is the GruppeM Ram Air System that a few peeps here have tried on their MK6 GTI's.
And also the APR Carbonio CAI.

A few of those I'd be concerned about whether it'd still fit in the R. A few don't specifically mention the R but mention cars such as the S3 or Pirelli/Ed 30 GTI. But it's a worry due to slight differences in the engine bay. For example, the Forge TwinTake has different part numbers for the S3 and Pirelli. I also worry about the space between the fuse box and the Xenon's in the R and whether a few of these would still fit.

One of the great things about my car right now, is that the intercooler upgrade is all but invisible (you'd have to _really_ know your stuff and go looking for it to see it), the HFPF upgrade is "visible" but looks identical to stock, and the downpipe is partially visible if you know your stuff (like what the stock is meant to look at) and are looking for it. [b]But since the Golf R's intake is integrated into our engine cover, swapping to the first three options I mentioned requires permanent removal of the engine cover. So then it's a dead giveaway that your car is modified if you're pulled over and asked to pop the bonnet.

This gives the advantage to the GruppeM and APR intakes to me... but I need to investigate the option of trimming the engine cover so the full intake systems can be used and still look "close to stock".

If trimming the engine cover is an option, then I think I'd prefer the APR Carbonio MK6 TSI Stage 2 Intake, as it's pod filter is fully enclosed, and it looks about "as close to stock" as any of the aftermarket intakes - but it doesn't fit the Golf R at this stage.

[weewilly]

So then it's a dead giveaway that your car is modified if you're pulled over and asked to pop the bonnet.

what difference would that make to the local constabulary. we are still permitted to mod our cars in this nanny country are we not?

[TimmyR]

Yep... Stage 2+
I did the APR Divorced Downpipe/Cat (not the cat-back to form the full exhaust), Intercooler, and High Pressure Fuel Pump. I have not installed an intake at this point as I'm exploring options.

I'm extremely happy with the results. Keeping the stock rear end of the exhaust means I still have the OEM look. It also means I have the flapper system still. When I turn it on and it idles on a cold start, there is no question something is significantly different as the idle is very loud whilst it's "warming up". The exhaust valve opens during this to help heat up the system asap. But after about a minute when the idle drops to it's regular operating revs, you'd be hard pressed to notice any difference between stock sound and volume.

Driving around with very light throttle is enough to keep up with regular traffic. The sound and volume is also basically the same as stock.

But the more you press the pedal, the more "new" sounds come from the engine bay. More turbo sound, more induction noise (yes, even though it's the stock intake), more other sounds (not specifically sure how to describe).

When you floor the pedal though - wow! The exhaust flap opens and the car snarls loudly. The "DSG far" turns into an explosive "Brrraaappp" sound. The car accelerates great. The only spoiler is Australia's low speed limits! It all ends so quickly.

I have to say that the car feels quite different now. It feels like it weighs a few hundred KG less in general driving just because of how responsive it is. It also doesn't feel as heat sensitive due to the intercooler.

Doing the Stage II+ is a decent whack of money, but I'm glad I did. I had Stage II in the MKV GTI, and it was awesome, but the biggest difference was the stock > stage I step. With the R, and having a K04 turbo, the difference between Stage I and Stage II+ is much larger than stock > stage I. (I went straight to this setup, so I'm not sure what just the DP and S2 software is like without the IC and HPFP). I completely understand why there seems to be more MKV Pirelli Stage 2(+) cars running around than Stage I cars (at least from the active members on these forums).

I'll definitely be adding an intake, but not just yet.

I just thought ild give my opinion on this as i have also done a stage 2+ on my R. My R is manual though.
I’ve done the APR dump, (same setup as Corey_R) HPFP and carbonio intake, no front mount intercooler... yet!

From stage 1 to stage 2+ i wouldn’t say the difference is night and day, far from it actually. Stock to stage 1 is a significant jump in power and feel of the car. Stage 1 to stage 2+ isn’t about power but more about feel of the car which has been mentioned many times before. The car is a bit more responsive lower in the rev range. The power comes on a bit earlier which makes the car rev smoother when booting it from the standstill or if you have it in too low of a gear. It almost makes the car feel slower as the car slightly loses the kick from the turbo as now the power comes on sooner and smoother. This probably isn’t as noticeable in the DSG when compared to the manual. But in saying that i don’t have a FMIC, so maybe there might be still some improvements to be had.

With the manual R's they don’t have the constant 'DSG burble' sound between gear changes or that violent braaap sound that you now get with the dump. With the dump pipe i occasionally get that violent braaap sound which I can sometimes pull from 2nd to 3rd gear.. Extremely loud and it always turns heads. Not sure if this is a good head turner or a bad one, but it definitely turns heads!
And like Corey_R said, when you put your foot down the car has a loud deepish growl, and letting off the gas makes the exhaust start crackling and popping, which i like. What i don’t really like is how the exhaust flaps operate. Would have been nice if you could change when the flaps open as i find that on 1st and 2nd gear they open up a bit too early so it sounds like your stomping on the gas when you’re not, but then in 3rd gear you could have your foot planted at 3K to 4K and the car sounds almost like stock. Correct me if I’m wrong but I’m pretty sure the exhaust flaps open at a set rpm per gear and has nothing to do with throttle position which would have been so much better.

With the sound of the exhaust I’m going to have to disagree slightly with Corey_R as the sound of the exhaust sounds a little like it has a hole in it or like there is a lot of air flowing through it. It’s hard to explain. (This is during idle and on normal driving not under WOT) It’s a different story though when you stomp on it but I’m not 100% sure if i like the sound though. I’ve been driving with the windows open and radio off for a week now listening but I’m still not sure. But it has got me listening to my car … a lot, so I guess it can’t be that bad! haha

Induction sound with the carbonio intake i found to be more of what you can hear from stock, but just louder. No fluttering sounds or anything like you get with a POD filter. Again i don’t have a FMIC which might make a bit of a difference with the sound. I know it made a huge difference on my last car.

Don’t get me wrong, I like loud and fast cars. I previously owned a 200sx which sounded like a truck. But for the people who think that the R is too loud from the factory and are looking at a stage 2+ then you should seriously consider listening to an R with the work done first. It will either put a smile on your face or make you cringe!
Also if you’re looking for more seat of your pants power from stage 1 then you will be disappointed as it’s not about overall power gain. Again I haven’t got a FMIC but I know this won’t make that much of a difference.

So the question is would i do the dump and pump again? Short answer is yes as I knew what I was buying and what to expect even though i forgot to look into the sound of the exhaust which wouldn’t have made a difference with me either way. The only downside for me is that the stock R does have a nice deep growl sound, now my R doesn’t, but that’s just my opinion.

I’ll just like to mention that the Stage 2+ work was done by Derek at European Autotech. I Went well out of my way to get Derek to do the work as I’ve had some ‘issues’ with my previous mechanics and I’m now glad that I did. Anything major like a FMIC or stage 3 perhaps, the car will be going straight back to Derek.

[Fab_R]

There's the Evolution MotorSports V-Flow Intake which is what Fab_R is using. Hope that's the right part.

Mines for sale if anyone interested.
Ive ordered the VF Eng unit

Nothing wrong with it btw...just trying something else...

[Tim]

what difference would that make to the local constabulary. we are still permitted to mod our cars in this nanny country are we not?

Not really. Most modifications are slowly being outlawed.

[Fab_R]

I just thought ild give my opinion on this as i have also done a stage 2+ on my R. My R is manual though.
I’ve done the APR dump, (same setup as Corey_R) HPFP and carbonio intake, no front mount intercooler... yet!

From stage 1 to stage 2+ i wouldn’t say the difference is night and day, far from it actually. Stock to stage 1 is a significant jump in power and feel of the car. Stage 1 to stage 2+ isn’t about power but more about feel of the car which has been mentioned many times before. The car is a bit more responsive lower in the rev range. The power comes on a bit earlier which makes the car rev smoother when booting it from the standstill or if you have it in too low of a gear. It almost makes the car feel slower as the car slightly loses the kick from the turbo as now the power comes on sooner and smoother. This probably isn’t as noticeable in the DSG when compared to the manual. But in saying that i don’t have a FMIC, so maybe there might be still some improvements to be had.

With the manual R's they don’t have the constant 'DSG burble' sound between gear changes or that violent braaap sound that you now get with the dump. With the dump pipe i occasionally get that violent braaap sound which I can sometimes pull from 2nd to 3rd gear.. Extremely loud and it always turns heads. Not sure if this is a good head turner or a bad one, but it definitely turns heads!
And like Corey_R said, when you put your foot down the car has a loud deepish growl, and letting off the gas makes the exhaust start crackling and popping, which i like. What i don’t really like is how the exhaust flaps operate. Would have been nice if you could change when the flaps open as i find that on 1st and 2nd gear they open up a bit too early so it sounds like your stomping on the gas when you’re not, but then in 3rd gear you could have your foot planted at 3K to 4K and the car sounds almost like stock. Correct me if I’m wrong but I’m pretty sure the exhaust flaps open at a set rpm per gear and has nothing to do with throttle position which would have been so much better.

With the sound of the exhaust I’m going to have to disagree slightly with Corey_R as the sound of the exhaust sounds a little like it has a hole in it or like there is a lot of air flowing through it. It’s hard to explain. (This is during idle and on normal driving not under WOT) It’s a different story though when you stomp on it but I’m not 100% sure if i like the sound though. I’ve been driving with the windows open and radio off for a week now listening but I’m still not sure. But it has got me listening to my car … a lot, so I guess it can’t be that bad! haha

Induction sound with the carbonio intake i found to be more of what you can hear from stock, but just louder. No fluttering sounds or anything like you get with a POD filter. Again i don’t have a FMIC which might make a bit of a difference with the sound. I know it made a huge difference on my last car.

Don’t get me wrong, I like loud and fast cars. I previously owned a 200sx which sounded like a truck. But for the people who think that the R is too loud from the factory and are looking at a stage 2+ then you should seriously consider listening to an R with the work done first. It will either put a smile on your face or make you cringe!
Also if you’re looking for more seat of your pants power from stage 1 then you will be disappointed as it’s not about overall power gain. Again I haven’t got a FMIC but I know this won’t make that much of a difference.

So the question is would i do the dump and pump again? Short answer is yes as I knew what I was buying and what to expect even though i forgot to look into the sound of the exhaust which wouldn’t have made a difference with me either way. The only downside for me is that the stock R does have a nice deep growl sound, now my R doesn’t, but that’s just my opinion.

I’ll just like to mention that the Stage 2+ work was done by Derek at European Autotech. I Went well out of my way to get Derek to do the work as I’ve had some ‘issues’ with my previous mechanics and I’m now glad that I did. Anything major like a FMIC or stage 3 perhaps, the car will be going straight back to Derek.

Another good write up..thank you.

But i must add that when the rest of the APR cat back is put on, the sound matures out of this world, and sounds much much more complete and ballsy and removes that almost annoying cracking sound under load.

Without it, it just doesn't sound that good!!!

[Corey_R]

I find that with the DSG unit that I can happily drive the car through the gears (well, it shifting through the gears) without the flap in the exhaust opening, and thus it's quiet.

I too am not sure whether the sound of the stock exhaust is "nice" at cold idle, or when the flap opens under throttle, or WOT - but it's certainly different, AND head turning (as mentioned above). But then, I'm not really sure any 4 cylinder sounds that great... V12's are where it's at

I personally hate loud cars. So I'm happy to keep the stock rear end of the exhaust as it has the ability to be both quiet (as stock when off/low throttle) AND loud, and LOUDER. Since the Golf R is coming to the USA now, I hope they'll make an RSC exhaust. And there is also at least one member with the Milltek which also has a valve system (though, they apparently don't sell the cat-back alone). I don't have any desire to change it now, but later when there are more people with more options, I'll reevaluate.


On another note, I didn't mention that the torque starts much earlier... as low as 2500rpm.
I'm wondering whether the perceived differences between TimmyR and myself are to do with manual vs DSG. With the DSG you are in 6th by the time you're doing 55km/h - whereas with the manual you are probably not. Thus the low end torque is more noticable as that's where you're at most of the time.


Finally, I too had the work done by Derek at European Autotech, as I did with my last two cars. Thoroughly recommended.

[Corey_R]

what difference would that make to the local constabulary. we are still permitted to mod our cars in this nanny country are we not?

As Tim mentioned, I'm not sure what country you're living in, but I'm in Australia, and modifications have always had stringent rules about what you can and can't do, or what additional tasks you need to perform after doing certain mods.

Increasing performance of a car beyond a certain amount then requires the car to be engineered. Beyond what amount? Well, that's a little "grey" as they talk about "increases in displacement" etc (in the NSW RTA guidelines). Changes in brakes and steering immediately need the car to be engineered. Cold Air Intakes have specific rules about the type of pod, isolation from the engine and being "enclosed".

Once your car is modified, and it is "engineered", you're meant to carry around the engineer's certificate with you at all times, so if your car is pulled over and inspected, you can present the certificate which details the changes and the fact that the car passes requirements etc.

However, most Police Officers are not mechanics, let alone mechnical engineers. So whether your car is engineered and you have the certificate present or not, if something looks "non-stock" you can end up having to prove that it's in compliance etc. This can result in you receiving a defect notice and then having to go through the process (varies by state) to prove that it's not.

I'd rather just not have that hassle