Golf R Observations and Questions

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Originally Posted by dave_r

As for boost, what are they stock? We never plumbed in the boost line on the dyno, though I could just plug in VCDS and log it. Getting lazier by the day!

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Got unlazy and did some logging tonight for fun but I think my numbers are farked...
2800rpm, 99.6% throttle (robbed .04 lol) and 2200mbar which tells me 31.9psi or 2.2 bar. LOL i dont think so!

I did some on the DSG as well. Temps around 94-96deg. But do an LC take off and watch the clutch oil temp skyrocket. Went from 94 to 114 first run which was short and 2nd time from 94 to 131 doing a few gears. Don't notice much hesitation on LC anymore either, maybe I've worn it in good :D

Anyway I think its a case of too much info and not enough understanding hehe. VCDS is almost useless for the R, I can't change anything and don't understand the data lol

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Originally Posted by dave_r

As mentioned, AWD dyno ;)

As for boost, what are they stock? We never plumbed in the boost line on the dyno, though I could just plug in VCDS and log it. Getting lazier by the day!

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Nice Dave, thanks for the Dyno run, was considering doing mine before I tinkered with it :) Stock boost is 1.2bar (I think I've read that somewhere) 17.6psi

Also isn't the general consensus for an AWD car to lose about 25% at the wheels? If this is the case then Dave's motor is around 187kw at the flywheel, which sounds right!

The next thing mate is to dyno after every major engine/exhaust etc mod on the same dyno with hopefully the same conditions (temp etc) that would be a good read, deserves it own thread I reckon ;)

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Originally Posted by dave_r

Got unlazy and did some logging tonight for fun but I think my numbers are farked...
2800rpm, 99.6% throttle (robbed .04 lol) and 2200mbar which tells me 31.9psi or 2.2 bar. LOL i dont think so!

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Subtract 14.7 psi (atmospheric pressure) and you get 17.2 psi which is close to what Shakespeare says stock max boost is.

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Originally Posted by thezoneR32

I know this is somewhat out of place and I have said all this before but....here's my old 3Rb Liberty (below).
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/

Beautiful car, lots of mods, custom headers and exhaust, ecutek tune, sti springs, sti short shift etc etc. Now here is the dyno.
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/

Hmmm.....same as a stock R.

I have since driven a stock R which is by far quicker again than both cars yet, both show 149kw atw? My point here is, I'm not sure that the peak power a car produces at some point in the rev range is a good indication of it's overall drivability. Yet we all seem so caught up in the power figures. the butt-o-meter is a far better judge imo.:rolleyes:

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The liberty sounds like it was a great car! Nice power run.

There are a few reasons why the R feels faster.

Well for starters, I see the liberty was dyno'ed in 3rd gear. This gives an inflated number. On a five speed box, a legit dyno run is done in 4th gear.

On a six speed either 4th or fifth.

Lower gears (1,2,3) give false/optimistic power figures. So a legit 150kw's will feel faster cause it is.

Also thought I should mention, my MY08 WRX with TBE and TMIC from Hyperflow, got 137KW at the wheels on a roller dyno.

It's rated at 169KW stock, the TBE releases about 18kWs. The only before and after I did was the TMIC. It gained around 8KWs. (so 129kw with just TBE - hence why I sold it! - MY09 went heaps better)

I suggest 150kws at the wheels on an R, is not just excellent drivetrain loss ( lack of) but also Its maybe underrated slightly.

The MY08-10 STI Got around 150-160 at the wheels and that is a) quick and b) rated higher than 188kw! Try 221KW!!

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Originally Posted by shakespeare

The next thing mate is to dyno after every major engine/exhaust etc mod on the same dyno with hopefully the same conditions (temp etc) that would be a good read, deserves it own thread I reckon ;)

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Totally agree...that would be awesome...

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Originally Posted by REXman

Well for starters, I see the liberty was dyno'ed in 3rd gear. This gives an inflated number. On a five speed box, a legit dyno run is done in 4th gear.

On a six speed either 4th or fifth.

Lower gears (1,2,3) give false/optimistic power figures. So a legit 150kw's will feel faster cause it is.

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Not sure why this is but sounds like you know what your talking about.

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Originally Posted by REXman

I suggest 150kws at the wheels on an R, is not just excellent drivetrain loss ( lack of) but also Its maybe underrated slightly.

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Another example of how cars can differ, everyone expresses drivetrain loss as a finite variable eg, 2wd = 25% , 4wd = 35% etc. This is rubbish and we just proved it. The liberty had only 18,000km on the clock so we can assume it produced factory flywheel power of 180kw and the stock run was 127kw. Thats about a 30% drivetrain loss. Given that ratio my 149kw atw = 194kw atfw. This is 10kw more than the R yet its a slower car. Anyway here is a good write up entitled "The absurdity of fixed percentage drivetrain loss"

Hey some of you guys are positing at 2am and 4am dont you sleep?

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Originally Posted by bcm

Subtract 14.7 psi (atmospheric pressure) and you get 17.2 psi which is close to what Shakespeare says stock max boost is.

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Ah yes that makes sense hehe. Post stage 1, its now ~21psi but a bit more through the rev range. Haven't been able to give it much of a run yet but the car seens to make much more sense in D where as I was always using S before.

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Originally Posted by REXman

Well for starters, I see the liberty was dyno'ed in 3rd gear. This gives an inflated number. On a five speed box, a legit dyno run is done in 4th gear.

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Mine was run in 4th but doesn't matter. As long as they use the same one next time the difference will be consistent.

PS: FWIW, I drove Dean's GTI with tune/exhaust and intake I think he said. **** ME the response on that thing is insane! Dare I say that it was nearly the perfect daily driver (fair bit of front end movement with that instant power and FWD though). Would embarrass many an R with ease.

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Originally Posted by SilvrFoxX

They were speed cameras mate...

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oohhhh, I'll have some photos of the Black to post!!! glad I had just washed it :)

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Originally Posted by dave_r

Mine was run in 4th but doesn't matter. As long as they use the same one next time the difference will be consistent.

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Bingo. Im just talking about peak figures.

If you just want to compare whats going on on your own set up, your right, just use the same gear and for comparisons you'll be fine.

But they wont be accurate overall figures for other people to quote, and wont help indicate anything about track performance.

Some shifty performance shops use the lower gear/higher power "technique" to down talk other tuners or make themselves look like "hot" stuff. They have been doing it for years.

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Originally Posted by REXman

But they wont be accurate overall figures for other people to quote, and wont help indicate anything about track performance.

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Different dyno, different day, different atmospheric conditions, then they're not "comparable" anyway. So what's the diff :)