Golf 77 TSi Converted to "R"?

[Molotov]

100-150K on mods... Wow! Do you know what was done to it?

Mate, I'm not much of a mechanic but it basically began as adding a turbo to the stock 318is.

The specialist German tuning shop he used in Sydney were a bunch of crooks imo. Did a terrible job and then charged him more every time he went back to get it working properly. Took 12 months for the car to leave the workshop after he was promised 3 months, and then spent the next 2-3 years chewing up more money as they 'made adjustments'.

Eventually he pulled it out of that shop and took it to another shop who did an M3 engine swap and then added a turbo to that one (I think!). This time the work was a lot more holistic and included other upgrades (suspension?). But even then, after countless promises and a shedload of $$$ they made promises they couldn't keep, namely that it would be road-worthy and pass the required tests. It never was and it never did so it's exclusively a track car these days.

[brad]

A mate of mine has a 60s beetle at a VW specialist at the moment. Very similar story to the above. Slow progress, huge invoices, performance levels promised but not achieved.

[SMOK3Y]

I was in Melbourne earlier this year and thought the roads were far better than the crap we have here, to be fair a bigger area to cover.

agree to this QLD has the worst roads of all the states by a mile

[walbjj]

gonspeed is vwwatercooled version of robr32 i think.
awesome post btw, love the logic and ration thinking behind it. well played

[Ryan_R]

If I came across a wrecked R I wouldn't be using it to improve the 77TSI, I'd be spending the money getting the R back on the road (depending on a few things).


*unticks box to show signature*

[Hullo_0]

I'm going to do this to mine:

57S-9500 - K&N 57i Series Kits, Performance Intake Kit

That's it.

For me it's the perfect A to B car. If you want an R, save and buy one.

[Blitzen]

Very funny thread... I think the OP has no idea about cars, or the R&D that goes into them... Also, still trying to figure out where he got the initial price from?? I was quoted $53,692 drive away for a Golf R...

[Transporter]

agree to this QLD has the worst roads of all the states by a mile

come to Adelaide. I wouldn't buy a sports car here.

[Tobes_WIR35]

As an engineer, reading the OP made me want to strangle myself. From an engineering point of view, the only thing a 77TSI has in common with an R is the chassis, most of the body panels and dimensions. I had a similar argument with someone who tried to tell me that a HSV is so much better value because you get such more metal for your money. Well, yes you do (and a lot more ugly fibreglass and plastic) but metal, plastic and fibreglass are by far the cheapest part of designing, developing and building a well engineered quality, refined car.

[Diesel_vert]

Having just bought a new 77TSi and being my first VW vehicle, I note there are a lot of GTi and R owners in this forum. The question poked in the back of my head when I saw the R on display at the dealer was the following:

For $65k driveaway, the R is equal to 2x Golf 77 TSi (end of year model) + $15k spare change.

Assuming an end of year 77 TSi being $25k - all I can see the difference between the 77 TSi and the R is as follows:

* Different front bumper w/fog and/or daylight lights
* Extra side skirts
* Different rear bumper with twin exhausts
* Bigger engine w/bigger turbo
* Adaptive chassis
* 4 motion, 4 wheel drive
* Leather seats
* Upgraded audio system + bluetooth
* Cruise Control
* Alloy wheels
* Electric Sunroof (factory option?)
* Climate air conditioning
* Leather wrapped steering wheel
* Leather cover on DSG shifter
* LED tail lights
* 6-speed DSG

I am happy with my Golf as fuel consumption is crucial for me when I drive 40k+ km every year.

Well, you can say that about any variant that's built on the same platform from any manufacturer. The PQ35 platform, as it is known in internal circles, has spawned many models over the years (see Volkswagen Group A platform - Wikipedia).

So yes, it's obviously possible to transplant the essence of the R's hardware into a 77TSI, or 90TSI, or 118TSI, or in fact any model based on the same platform. Heck, they do it themselves in order to save production costs (refer to the above Wiki link).

Ignoring the cosmetic differences, ie. leather seats, steering wheel, lights, bumpers, climate aircond, etc - the difference in power I assume is only the engine+turbo, 4 wheel drive, adaptive chassis and the 6-speed gearbox - would I be correct?

I find it hard to wrap my head around spending an extra $40k will get you in a Golf. I can only presume the body panels are the same, the sound proofing is the same, same plastic parts in the car, similar dash and so on.

Differences in major components would include - the engine, gearbox, drivetrain, fuel supply, cooling, exhaust, front & rear suspension, brakes, wheels, wiring, electrics, and much more I'm sure.

Stuff like climate control, cruise control, infotainment, accessories, and other toys etc. can be fitted to any variant; likewise interior and exterior trim components.

To purchase all of these components yourself would cost well in excess of $40k. And assuming you can find someone to put it all together and has all the proper tools... well, let's just say manual labour rates aren't cheap these days.

Is it even possible to upgrade the 77TSI... to become essentially an R for much less than $40k?

The answer to that question is a definite "no".
It just isn't financially practical due to sheer number of parts and the cost of labour.

Of course, the profit margin for the manufacturer gets higher the further up you go in the range; I can't imagine the cost difference in assembling all the different variants would be significantly different, which is the whole point of platform sharing.

But since Volkswagen AG is a public company, their obligation is to their shareholders, first and foremost - and they're doing bloody good job at that! (Though perhaps at the cost of customer satisfaction... but that's for another time in another thread).

I'm sure you understand.