Dynamic / Adaptive chassis control (DCC / ACC)

[WhiteJames]

The Polo GTI does not come with DCC as an optional extra unlike other Volkswagen offerings, which reduces its desirability for those looking to shed about 200kg and downsize to something smaller.

In the past when pitching the Golf GTI against the Golf R, I’ve expressed a desire for the Golf GTI to have a slightly higher spring rate of up to 15% and slightly lower ride height similar to the Golf R for that extra bit of control and handling in the Golf GTI with DCC. Nick from Singapore has sourced a set of Volkswagen Driver Gear linear rate springs made by Eibach for Volkswagen for his MKV Golf GTI. See link:

http://golfmkv.com/forums/showthread...100863&page=19

These springs lower only a slight amount (approx 10mm), are linear in spring rate (unlike Eibach Prokit or H&R DCC compatible coils), are approved by Volkswagen as an OE substitute and most importantly, do not exhibit any tug’n’release or spring bind issues. The Driver Gear springs also appear to be compatible with the Golf GTI with DCC in the Mark 6 Golf GTI. Volkswagen Dealers overseas in Asia and America sell these springs as part of their Volkswagen Driver Gear aftermarket accessories. The slightly higher spring rate and lowering of the Volkswagen Driver Gear aftermarket springs may not be overkill for the OE Sachs Dynamic Chassis Control (DCC) dampers in terms of extra spring load and longevity. Not sure if they have a version for the Golf R or Polo GTI.

Cheers.
WJ

---------- Post added 11-12-2011 at 10:09 AM ---------- Previous post was 05-12-2011 at 10:45 AM ----------

Here's a video showing the iPhone controlled application for the KW DDC retro-fit coilover for the Mark V and non-DCC Mark 6 Golf. You no longer require DCC as a factory fit option for this kit ... simply purchase the control module box complete with wiring for $300 Euro Dollar and then plug'n'play via iPhone application. The iPhone adjustment allows for greater and individual variance in the front to rear tuning of the KW DCC coilover, making them more adjustable than the factory KW DDC coilover kit for DCC equipped Volkswagens.

This kit is fitted to the Merc SLS at the 1.30 min mark in the video:

KWsuspensions's Channel - YouTube

Cheers.
WJ

[WhiteJames]

OEM Volkswagen Driver Gear Sport Springs made by Eibach that are a linear rate spring optimised by Volkswagens rigorous & high standards, which are also made of aircraft grade alloy metal material & lighter reducing unsprung weight with individual sizes for differing Golf Variants: 3 door - 5 door - Manual - DSG - are not available from VW Australia, but can be shipped in from at least two vendors in the USA.

http://www.oemplus.com/vw-models-gol...-c-75_108.html

Home Page > Search > 5k4071677b - ECS Tuning Inc

There is a whole thread or two on these springs on the golfmk6.com forum with heaps of pics: VW DriverGear Sport Springs on a GTI -- YES they lower it! - VW GTI MKVI Forum / VW Golf R Forum / VW Golf MKVI Forum / VW GTI Forum - Golfmk6.com.

In past comparisons with the Golf R, the GTI showed that around the tighter twisties, it could do with slightly lower ride height reducing the centre of gravity to aid agility and driver control, with some added spring rate of about 10-15%. Additionally: a later review against that other crappy French brand (Renault Megane RS250) on Canberra coarse chip bitumen roadways and country roadways, showed the Golf GTI to be slightly overdamped in the low speed compression & rebound rate for the OE spring rate, filtering in many of the smaller coarse chip roadway undulations into the cabin with incessant bobbing up & down and never at quite at ease with the vertical chassis movements. Big hits on the Golf GTI, even with DCC, had the spring working overtime with a bit of spring chatter sounding like the CV joints were going to pack it in for the arvo.

The OEM Volkswagen Driver Gear Springs made by Eibach may be beneficial in either reducing or eliminating the overdamped low speed compression & rebound rate of the DCC Golf GTI in addition to adding spring rate to cope with the bigger hits where that other crappy French brand with about 15-20% spring rate imo was making a muted thud, rather than a loud spring binding type of suspension chatter as was the case with my DCC GTI at lower speed.

The OEM Volkswagen Driver Springs sold by OEMPlus.com and ECSTuning.com cost about $310 (USD) and shipping rates vary between each company - with OEMPlus shipping UPS Expeditiently for $475 (USD) and US Postal Service for $230 (USD). ECSTuning shipping seems to be less than this, which is odd as they seem to be further away from Aus in terms of mileage than OEMPlus Store.

The initial reviews of the OEM Volkswagen Driver Gear Springs made by Eibach are very positive. Guys in the states are dropping out their medicore coilovers for the VW DG Sport Springs.

Cheers.
WJ

---------- Post added 14-01-2012 at 09:36 AM ---------- Previous post was 13-01-2012 at 09:35 PM ----------

Pics on page 1 in post #19 and post #20 of this thread show the difference in height between the progresssive rate Eibach Prokit (#19) and linear rate OEM Volkswagen Driver Gear Sport Spring (#20). From past experience: Eibach Prokit will drop the GTI about 20mm front and 12mm rear. The VW Driver Gear Sport Springs appear to drop the Mark 6 GTI about 10mm f & r, which should make them more compatible in the longer term for the OE dampers and for (DCC) Dynamic Chassis Control suspension. To date - appears no one with DCC has had them fitting according to this thread - see pics in posts #19 and #20. VW DriverGear Sport Springs on a GTI -- YES they lower it! - VW GTI MKVI Forum / VW Golf R Forum / VW Golf MKVI Forum / VW GTI Forum - Golfmk6.com

Cheers.
WJ

[WhiteJames]

ECSTuning.com have Stage I and Stage II packages re: replacement nut & bolt as listed in the www.golfmk6.com Driver Gear Sport Springs thread post #1 for those that like to err on the side of caution when changing their MKV or MK6 suspension.

The basic ECS Stage I pack is cheap, but freight cost to Aus makes them prohibitive to import: http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-...n/Install_Kit/

Some don't bother changing any nuts or bolts if the OE versions are not damaged and in good condition. Depends on whether you want to err on the side of caution or not.

Cheers.
WJ

---------- Post added at 05:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:46 PM ----------

According to Paul @ Keffer Volkswagen in the States,

The OEM Volkswagen Driver Gear Sports Springs shouldn't affect your ability to re-set the wheel alignment values within standard OE factory specs. See link to vortex thread started by Paul @ Keffer VW: VWVortex.com - Driver gear springs. Keffer do not ship these springs to Australia BTW.

Cheers.
WJ

---------- Post added at 09:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:27 PM ----------

Had some time today to go through that mamouth thread on Volkswagen OEM Driver Gear Sport Springs made by Eibach (linear springs). Took the liberty of putting some pics together on one post for compartive purposes. The only issues so far have been stuffed up installations by installers ... otherwise ... no issues with spring bind or tug'n'release.

See page 67 - post #1330 for pics on the other forum:

Interesting to see that Manual Trans GTI starts with lower ride height and end up lower with softer DG Sport Springs. DSG starts off higher before & ends up higher after DG spring install. Although the DSG before pics for North American Golf GTI ride height seem to be a tad higher to what we have in Australia or Europe or Asia for that matter. May be that USA and Canada receive a different suspension tune & ride height to compensate for snow in winter. I've sent a request to Paul @ Keffer Volkswagen asking him if these DG puppies are suitable with Dynamic Chassis Control (DCC). Good to see that the DG Sport springs allow the GTI to be aligned within OE spec for f & r tyres and that there is no need for shortening any bumpstops. For those in Australia: The OEM Driver Gear Sport Springs can be had from OEMPlus.com or ECSTuning.com - both ship to Australia. BTW ... I still think two sway bars (f&r) are better than one (rear only). Hope owners don't mind, but for future reference, I've put some pics here in one place ... save me and others scrolling through pages and pages of posts. I'm fairly bullish on the Volkswagen OEM Driver Gear Sport Springs and reckon they'd be much better than the progressive strut type springs for driver feel & agility & damper reliability. Annoys me that my DCC dampers have about 30,000km mileage atm and Koni, Bilstein, KW, Ohlins etc don't have DCC compatible units for sale atm. This may well change in the future. Not entirely keen on swapping out with OE struts atm. Anyway ... pics all in one place.

VW DriverGear Sport Springs on a GTI -- YES they lower it! - Page 67 - VW GTI MKVI Forum / VW Golf R Forum / VW Golf MKVI Forum / VW GTI Forum - Golfmk6.com

Cheers.
WJ

---------- Post added 16-01-2012 at 09:14 PM ---------- Previous post was 15-01-2012 at 09:35 PM ----------

Ride Height

Volkswagen Driver Gear Sport Springs -v- Eibach Prokit.

See link to WJ Suspension Thread - tried to create a representation between the VW Driver Gear Springs -v- Eibach Prokit. Linear rate VW DG Sport seem to lower about 10mm all round - v - Progressive rate Eibach Prokit about 20mm front & 14mm rear.

See link: WHITE JAMES: Suspension & Wheel Reviews - Page 20 - VW GTI Forum / VW Rabbit Forum / VW R32 Forum / VW Golf Forum - Golfmkv.com

Cheers.
WJ

[WhiteJames]

Fired off an email to JCDouglasVW in the States re: VW DriverGear Sport Spring with DCC.

Received the following response:

VW does not offer a spring upgrade at all for the GTI. The driver gear springs are designed for the Golf but people put them on the GTI all the time no problem.

The driver gear springs will not affect the life of your DCC suspension.

VW does not offer any upgraded dampers other than the oe part number.

Cheers.
WJ

[WhiteJames]

Sirocco with DCC –v- Golf with DCC:

The comments made in the Wheels Magazine ‘Car of the Year’ Feb 2012 issue relating to the Sirocco R appear to be on the mark imo for VAG products generally - based on what I have experienced with the GTI with DCC and a few other VAG products.

After driving that crappy French brand (RS250), it became overwhelming apparent that the low speed damping on smooth roadways is higher than it needs to be in the DCC equipped GTI (or conversely, the spring rate is not as high as it should be), which is a notch or two down on suspension firmness of the Sirocco, which would only exacerbate the issue as Wheels Magazine has suggested.

The DCC ride on the GTI can be restless and never at ease as mentioned in my last DCC review. I’ve also experienced the trampoline effect after striking bumps and waves in the roadway with little reduction in the low speed compression rate for comfort of damping when DCC in the GTI is in Comfort mode, only to have the DCC GTI wallowing up and down like an American Yank Tank, esp. around the 60kph mark (South Dowling, Redfern was the last roadway where this occurred).

This is in part to the tuning preference by VAG engineers and imo also relates to the standard of damper (Sachs) that Volkswagen use. In contrast, the RS250, despite firmer suspension than the GTI and probably the Sirocco R, doesn’t exhibit this low speed compression overdamping and also works firmer on the high-speed compression bit hits with higher spring rate– creating an overall better but firmer ride as Wheels Magazine has suggested without that restless or bucking tendency - In part due to suspension tuning and probably due to higher quality dampers in the RS250.

The Volkswagen GTI with DCC works well in the mid-range damping range compared to the spring rate. I know that the damper is an item that is not normally seen or heard, but I’d like to see some improvement in this area for VAG products esp. the Mark 7 Golf GTI. Mercedes and BMW are realising this. Otherwise, the Volkswagen OEM Driver Gear Sport Springs (linear) made by Eibach may be a very real option for improvement in the Golf GTI with DCC for improving the overdamping in the low speed compression and harder high compression hits. I’m fairly bullish on them, although KW, Koni, Bilstein or Ohlins have not yet made a DCC plug’n’play strut type damper for the Golf DCC suspension with a view to a spring and damper upgrade for the GTI.

Cheers.
WJ

[WhiteJames]

Golf GTI : DCC Soft –v- Non-DCC

Had the pleasure of running the Boat Shed run in the Royal National Park, south of Sydney. In an earlier review I compared the non-DCC Golf GTI with the DCC equipped DCC Golf GTI in ‘Normal’ and ‘Sport’ mode, but failed to compare the standard non-DCC with Comfort mode DCC.

This time I ran the same Boat Shed route a couple of times with DCC in softer Comfort mode to further gauge any benefit of Dynamic Chassis Control.

1. The steering with the DCC in Comfort mode is lighter just off centre requiring extra effort to manoeuvre the GTI into the turn with a couple of stabs at the steering wheel either into or out of the corner, depending on the arc of the corner. In tighter turns, sometimes a couple of stabs into and out of the corner to ensure the GTI chassis followed the desire smooth arc of trajectory. This is similar, but not as pronounced, as the steering on the non-DCC Golf GTI, which required half as much additional steering wheel lock and stabs at the wheel to fight the understeer on corner entry and exit compared to the DCC Golf GTI.


2. With DCC in Comfort mode – the steering is lighter just off centre in a straight line, as is the case with the non-DCC Golf GTI. The extra damping of Normal or Sport inadvertently helps in loading up the steering weight improving steering control and creating a direct connection from the chassis to the driver. This is important for those looking to improve steering control and feel with premium aftermarket dampers (and springs too).


3. Darting from corner to corner from Toll Booth to Boat Shed with DCC in Comfort mode has the GTI behaving as a non-DCC GTI initially, with more pronounced understeer, greater steering effort, additional body roll in the first part of the damper range, perhaps the first fifth or sixth part of spring length. After this, the DCC electronics step in to increase the damping force and keep the GTI consistently flatter when negotiating turns. This also affects the steering input in DCC Comfort improving feel and directness and reduces the amount of steering required from the driver to maintain a constant & smooth arc around the bends.

4. Straight ahead roadway peaks and troughs with DCC in Comfort mode has the GTI floating and trampolining for a brief period of time afterwards until the DCC electronics steps in with added damping to settle the chassis down back to neutral stance. The stabilisation of the damping rates from floaty and wallowing to something with added stability happens much more slowly than would be the case with the other two modes of Normal and Sport, which are short & sharp, but never overly harsh or overly jarring. The non-DCC do seem to take longer to settle with more bounce and it may also relates to length of spring and spring rate into addition to damping rates I suspect after driving the Golf R on the same route.


5. There is still a certain flatness to the way the Mark 6 Golf GTI with DCC in Comfort mode behaves around these hilly slower speed hill climb like corners, once the initial roll and chassis movement reaches a certain predetermined body roll threshold, things firm up like an invisible hand holding up the chassis from leaning any further.


6. The Boat Shed low laying bridge adjoining to the roadway while simultaneously executing a left hand turn with DCC in Comfort mode did not create any rubbing of the outside loaded tyre on the top inner fender screw as was the case with the non-DCC Golf GTI also on 18” Detroit’s. In this regard, the DCC in Comfort mode sufficiently firmed up the dampers to prevent any rubbing occurring, offering firmness and agility when required in almost an instant.


7. The compression wallow and trampolining after encountering peaks and troughs in the roadway appears to in part due to softer Comfort mode DCC damping, pre-determined settings of damper algorithms and softer and higher/longer spring in concert with each other in the Golf GTI imo.

8. In a nutshell - the DCC Golf GTI offers greater comfort than the non-DCC Golf GTI until such time as the chassis body roll, pitch and sway hits a certain pre-determined threshold where the dampers firm up accordingly, offering greater chassis agility handing a feeling of direct control to the driver, which ultimately makes the DCC equipped GTI a more comfortable and a better handling vehicle when in Comfort mode than the non-DCC Golf GTI –despite what the salesperson tells you. Of course, this all happens faster and becomes firmer with added speed.


Question on my Mind?

What about fitting a set of genuine Volkswagen OEM Driver Gear Sport Spring with moderate lowering of about 10mm and increased spring rate of about 10-15% over OE Golf GTI springs?

I’m in two minds about this. Mechanics tell me fitting the Volkswagen Driver Gear Sport Springs does not present any issues for the DCC equipped Golf GTI. The DCC damping rates do increase with an increase in speed – what feels nicely damped in the low speed compression damping range at low speeds of under 80kph with DCC and OE springs, but can feel overdamped at higher speeds with improved damping in the mid to higher speed compression range at faster highway speeds, at the expense of the low speed damping comfort, creating an uneasy and unsettled feeling into the cabin with a slight incessant bobbing up and down.

The DG Sport Springs will cancel out the higher driving speed low compression feel of uneasiness that never truly settles on 80 - 100kph + highways, but may detract from lower speed 60kph chassis adjustability, making the DCC GTI a bit more inert and less fun at lower speeds around the tight corners like that of the Boat Shed run.

Ultimately the OE spring will work as good or better at lower speeds imo, with the Volkswagen Driver Gear Sport Spring with a higher spring rate and offering a lower centre of gravity on the GTI coming into its own as speeds rise and in more pressing circumstances. In other words, just as you lose some of that driver connection when going from non-DCC to DCC on the Golf, the firmer VW Driver Gear Sport Spring may also reduce a bit of that slower speed adjustability at the expense of higher speed agility and handling prowess, as in the case of the Golf R.

One thing for sure ... after driving the same route again in the DCC equipped Golf GTI, this time in Comfort mode ... a set of Volkswagen genuine OEM Driver Gear Sport Springs mated with a quality premium heavy duty sport damper (Koni Sport, Bilstein Sport B6 HD, Koni FSD, Ohlins DFV) will inadvertently improve the steering weight, feel and directness of the non-DCC Golf GTI – just as DCC does on the GTI when the dampers firm up during cornering. Bring back the old-school heavy at low speed MKV Golf GTI steering I hear you say?

PS: I’ve been doing some of my own before and possibly after measurements in anticipation for the Volkswagen OEM Driver Gear Sport Springs made by Eibach.

I call it the McDonalds Restaurant Car Park Concrete Stopper & Front Spitter Test – saves paying for front end re-sprays – see pics.

Cheers.
WJ

[tonymy01]

Possibly a stupid question, but I had to compromise one of my options to get an in country Golf R.. no ACC Is there any way to get this fitted after delivery (next Tuesday yay!). I guess possibly also after market? Dealer said no.

[WhiteJames]

PITA to retro-fit the DCC. Adding new dampers, wiring, sensors front & rear - major PITA. Better to buy off the shelf item like Bilstein PSS dampertronic coilover complete with hardware or the iPhone KW DCC coilover retro fit that can be controlled externally with a control module box ($300 EUR) and varied on your iPhone with a KW iPhone application. DCC does make a difference, esp, on the Golf GTI. I've spent some time doing a few reccy runs in the Royal National Park using the side routes 3 times over for Comfort / Normal / Sport in addition to some city and highway runs with difference settings to gauge whether or not to fit a set of geniune Volkswagen OEM Driver Gear Sport Springs made by Eibach (linear rate) that lower about 10mm and are about 10-15% firmer than the OEM Golf GTI springs. Ideally .... I'd like to upgrade the dampers & springs at the same time, but no one makes a strut only premium DCC damper.
Cheers.
WJ

[Xciteu]

Is it possible to add the control box to an already existing KW DDC coilover kit? I mean the control box that enables you to make adjustments on the fly with an I phone app. Does this control box allow you to adjust dampening,rebound?

[WhiteJames]

The iPhone WLAN control module controls the KW DDC coilovers in lieu of the hardware installed in the DCC Golf. I'd imagine that adding the iPhone control WLAN module box would have to be at the expense of disconnecting the in-car DCC function (prob. with VAGCOM). It may involve routing some of the wiring ... best to speak with Erik at evlmotorsport.com.au KW importer for KW Germany's take on whether this can be done. The iPhone application does allow for greater adjustment towards or soft hard. What's the go with the standard KW DDC coilover ... are they not hard enough in Sport or Soft enough in Comfort?
Cheers.
WJ