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Thread: DSG7 0AM Vag Com Data Logs

  1. #21
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    I have made quite a bit of progress in the last week. (Ross Tech chaps gave me some good help). I used to know about 30 fields. Now I know pretty well all of them. Here is a reasonably complete list of what Mechatronics unit looks at to control the DSG7.

    Code:
    brake light 
    brake pressure 
    accelerator position
    Kick Down 
    Zero Accelerator (ie foot is off pedal)
    Tiptronic, Source (CAN or Steering wheel) 
    selector lever position
    
    speeds IN
    transmission input, speed 3 
    engine speed, (G28/CAN) 
    transmission input, speed 1
    transmission input, speed 2 
    
    speeds OUT
    speed output, shaft 1 
    speed output, shaft 2 
    speed output, ESP (CAN) 
    used, output speed 
    
    direction of rotation, shaft 1
    direction of rotation, shaft 2
    
    Vehicle Speed
    
    actual torque 
    engine torque after, intervention (calculated) 
    engine torque without intervention (calculated) 
    
    engine torque limit (Engine), 
    loss of torque, Engine 
    loss of torque, transmission 
    barometric pressure, (height information) 
     
    temperature, microprocessor 
    
    power supply state, gear train half 1 (target) 
    power supply state, gear train half 2 (target) 
    Voltage, gear train half 1 
    Voltage, gear train half 2 
     
    coolant, temperature 
    intake air, temperature 
    ambient, temperature 
    
    lever lock status
    lever lock Combination Lamp 
    
    starter release (ie. is engine allowed to start)
     
    selector lever position (instrument cluster) 
     
    requirement, air compressor, 
    cooling fan 
     
    increasing, idle speed
    
    Gear Request (When YES gear change has been requested)
    
    transmission torque (nominal value) 
    
    clutch, temperature 
    clutch 1 
    clutch 2 
    
    driving strategies 1/2/3 Lambda
    
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Hydraulic Pump  (Supplies the Mechatronics Hydraulic system)
    pressure supply
    hydraulic pump, (reference speed) 
    hydraulic pump, (actual speed) 
    hydraulic pump, Total Run Cycles 
    Total Runtime
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Ignition ON time
    CAN-Version 
    
    Gears Selected
    Drive Shaft 1, Gear, Display Range: NN/1N/3N/N5/N7/Nx/xN
    Drive Shaft 2, Gear, Display Range: NN/2N/4N/N6/NR/Nx/xN
    ?N = Selected Gear located on Output shaft 1
    N? = Selected Gear located on Output shaft 2
    NN = No gear engaged to Drive/input shaft
    xN = Gear in transit on Output shaft 1
    Nx = Gear in transit on Output shaft 2
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    
    steering wheel paddles, status 
    brake status 
    steering column module status 
    Gateway, status 
    
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    
    gear train half 1, (nominal pressure) 
    gear train half 1, (actual pressure) 
    gear train half 1, target (valve current) 
    gear train half 1, actual (valve current) 
    gear train half 1, valve current (value) 
    gear train half 1, valve Duty cycle 
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    
    gear train half 2, (nominal pressure) 
    gear train half 2, (actual pressure) 
    gear train half 2, target (valve current) 
    gear train half 2, actual (valve current) 
    gear train half 2, valve current (value) 
    gear train half 2, valve Duty cycle 
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Advanced Control Unit Identification I 
    Advanced Control Unit Identification II 
    serial number 
    Advanced Control Unit Identification III 
    Advanced Control Unit Identification IV 
    Mechatronics identification 
    Advanced Control Unit Identification V 
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    
    clutch 1 
    clutch 1, desired torque 
    clutch 1, actual torque 
    Clutch Path 1, (G617) target 
    Clutch Path 1, (G617) Actual position 
    clutch 1 AD is 1, actual position 
    clutch 1 AD-value of 2, the actual position 
    valve 3 in the gear train half 1 (N435) 
    valve 3 (N435), gear train half 1 (target) 
    valve 3 (N435), gear train half 1 (actual) 
    clutch 1, friction coefficient 
    clutch 1, curve 
    clutch 1, temperature 
    
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    clutch 2 
    clutch 2, desired torque 
    clutch 2, actual torque 
    Clutch Path 2, (G618) target 
    Clutch Path 2, (G618) Actual position 
    clutch 2 OD-value 1, actual position 
    clutch 2 OD value of 2, the actual position 
    valve 3 in the gear train half 2 (N439) 
    valve 3 (N439), gear train half 2 (target) 
    valve 3 (N439), gear train half 2 (actual) 
    clutch 2, coefficient of friction 
    clutch 2, curve 
    clutch 2, temperature 
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    displacement sensor 2 for Gear Plate 1/3
    displacement sensor 1 for gear plate 2/4
    displacement sensor 3 for passage plate 5/7
    displacement sensor 4 for gear disc 6/R 
    
    & For each gear
    adaptation 
    Engage Position mm
    Synchronous Position mm 
    neutral mm
    
    AND a stack more displacement sensor stuff including
    respective selector solenoid valves. 
    etc etc ...
    I can pull any or all of the above stuff out now. Usual issues with sample rate though. 10 per sec for a single value and back to about 1 per sec for 12 items. Also can dump all several hundred values over about 30 seconds into an csv.

    Some stuff I have worked out or read..

    *Noticed that there are at 2 or 3 diff ratios in use, which is a clever way to make the unit more compact.

    *Oils circuit uses a single hyd pump to supply two halves. There are eight solenoid valves. Two to regulate the pressure to each half. Two for the clutches and four for the gear actuators.
    Each half has four solenoid valves.
    1&1 in each half operate Gears 1/3 2/4
    2&2 in each half operate Gears 5/7 6/R
    3&3 in each half operates respective clutch
    4&4 in each half regulates pressure to half & can shut off and isolate a half if it fails.

    *Hyd pump has an accumulator and on cursory look can make 2 or 3 gear changes on residual pressure before it needing to fire up and rebuild pressure.

    *I think (but am not yet sure) that the clutch plates have about 10mm of life in them and it may be possible to track their wear from VAG-COM. Will investgate this further. Could someone who knows clutches comment as to whether this would sound reasonable?

    Thats about it for now.
    Last edited by logger; 04-11-2009 at 07:17 PM.
    Golf Mk6 118 TSI DSG |APR Stage I ECU Upgrade | HEX-USB+CAN

  2. #22
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    DSG7 hyd pump.xls is a log of what the Mechatronic Hyd pump does during a short drive around town. Shows that it runs a little over 10% of the time, typically for 2.5 secs each occasion while maintaining hyd pressure between ~ 45 and 60 bar. Mine has run for about 8.5 hours and nearly 12,000 cycles in around 70 hours of driving time. Lets hope this little sucker has plenty of cycles in it. The log is at 0.5 sec sample rate and shows the press drop, when the pumps runs and when gear changes are requested. Pump does not necessarily run during changes prvided accumulator press is sufficient. Pump ran 22 times in a 7 min drive while there were 27 gear changes.
    Golf Mk6 118 TSI DSG |APR Stage I ECU Upgrade | HEX-USB+CAN

  3. #23
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    are you saying the dsg mechatronic pump may be electric? can it be slow to react or pressure up?

    I have experienced slow clutch engagement when selecting D or R after start-up and on some occasions, a sensation of clutch slip on hard acceleration(w/o traction control light up).

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr gee View Post
    are you saying the dsg mechatronic pump may be electric?
    Yes, thats right the hydraulic pump is powered by a brushless DC motor
    Quote Originally Posted by mr gee View Post
    can it be slow to react or pressure up?
    I don't know. Mine is coming on at about 45bar/650psi.
    Quote Originally Posted by mr gee View Post
    I have experienced slow clutch engagement when selecting D or R after start-up and on some occasions, a sensation of clutch slip on hard acceleration(w/o traction control light up).
    I doubt this is due to lack of Mechatronic HYD pressure as there are a stack of other parameters that are considered. But really I am just guessing here.
    Golf Mk6 118 TSI DSG |APR Stage I ECU Upgrade | HEX-USB+CAN

  5. #25
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    If anyone is paranoid and wants to check their clutch temps - here are the measuring blocks you will need:
    098,4 for clutch one and
    118,4 for clutch two.
    But I believe the speculation elsewhere in these forums is unfounded wrt the OAM and the issues are actually to do with DSG6 wet clutch units that have specific software versions loaded.
    Golf Mk6 118 TSI DSG |APR Stage I ECU Upgrade | HEX-USB+CAN

  6. #26
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    Resetting the DSG7 0AM

    There is a theory going around the traps that you can reset a DSG7 gearbox by doing this:

    "With the vehicle stopped and engine turned off press the accelerator completely to the floor including the lower stage where you feel the click and hold it for about 10-15 seconds. this will reset the DSG and it will relearn." or in short by activating the kick down switch for >10 seconds with IGN off.

    I believe this is rubbish and does nothing. It is myth born out of a requirement in the post DSG reset fast adaption process to drive with different pedal positions. Including momentarily at 100% pedal so that the controller can recognise the value for full acceleration.

    I then tested the accelerator trick to see if has any effect. I noted the number of clutch adaptations on DSG7 via VAGCOM and there were in the order of 160 & 170 for each clutch after ~ 5 months. So I then applied this foot to the floor procedure for various time periods over 20 seconds with IGN off and on. I then rechecked the adaptation counts and they remained unchanged. So perhaps I am doing it wrong or more likely it is just a crock.

    So I then reset the DSG7 properly using VAGCOM and as expected the clutch adaptation counts dropped to zero. Next step was to attempt to complete the "Test Drive after OAM basic settings" procedure and as expected the clutch adaption counts climbed from 0&0 to 2&1. If the test drive is completed successfully there should be at least 3 per clutch. I was a couple short of the 3 per clutch but clearly the adaptation was under way again again from a reset at 0.

    Procedure goes on to say:

    "If the test drive cannot be performed in the recommended way for the necessary length, the still open fast adaptations are automatically and unoticeably performed in the subsequent driving cycles."

    So to my mind this dispels the foot to the floor reset myth.
    Golf Mk6 118 TSI DSG |APR Stage I ECU Upgrade | HEX-USB+CAN

  7. #27
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    Thanks for putting in the time. (And for splitting the topic off, was expecting the mods to chop in). I think I found the original source of the "myth" here, I think....
    http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/newf...t=35923&page=2

    Quote Originally Posted by coastie View Post
    Have you tried resetting the DSG? With the vehicle stopped and engine turned off press the accelerator completely to the floor including the lower stage where you feel the click and hold it for about 10-15 seconds. this will reset the DSG and it will relearn.
    So I've posted up a Q to Coastie at the end here...
    http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/newf...t=35923&page=5

    Quote Originally Posted by RW1 View Post
    This seems to be the first posting of this procedure for the 7 speed DSG on here. Where did you pick it up from?

    C.

    Interestly a UK guy has tried it today on a 2.0TSi with 6 speed and reported improvement effects. Always subjective. I wonder if it is something to do with the throttle?

    C.
    Last edited by RW1; 21-02-2010 at 10:04 AM.
    VW SCIROCCO 1.4TSI - DSG (MY2010) UK, East Cheshire.
    Build Complete October Wk43/09, Driving 4th November - Wk44/09. Sorted !

  8. #28
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    Is there a need or a procedure to set the throttle response and mapping limits? ie, you mentioned the need to push the pedal all the way to the end so that the controller can learn 100%.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by RW1 View Post
    Thanks for putting in the time. (And for splitting the topic off, was expecting the mods to chop in).
    You're welcome. I am obvioulsy intersted in understanding how all these things work too, so I don't mind doing the fiddling about to test stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by RW1 View Post
    ... I wonder if it is something to do with the throttle?
    I suspect (but am only guessing) that the controller seeing full throttle position forms part of the required things it needs to "see" from time to time for the adaptation progress to continue. Because it intuitively leads on from this - that supposing a driver has not used 100% accelerator position for an extremely long time then the controllers idea of where this position is may differ from the true position. It may even be that adaptation cycles cannot increment without the pedal being pegged to 100% momentarily. Will try an test his theory.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glennb View Post
    Is there a need or a procedure to set the throttle response and mapping limits? ie, you mentioned the need to push the pedal all the way to the end so that the controller can learn 100%.
    There is a procedure called Throttle Body Alignment (TBA) which was previoulsy accomplished with VagCom. But now with the MK6's, (while TBA can still be done via VagCom) I understand from an extremely reliable source that it can now also be done simply by turning IGN on without starting for about 30 seconds when ENG is cold. Then the throttle will cycle through its range and the ECU will adapt/align to its positions. But I don't think this would relate to the DSG7 adaptation or reset. I think it is more to do with the ECU.
    Golf Mk6 118 TSI DSG |APR Stage I ECU Upgrade | HEX-USB+CAN

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by logger View Post
    I suspect (but am only guessing) that the controller seeing full throttle position forms part of the required things it needs to "see" from time to time for the adaptation progress to continue. Because it intuitively leads on from this - that supposing a driver has not used 100% accelerator position for an extremely long time then the controllers idea of where this position is may differ from the true position. It may even be that adaptation cycles cannot increment without the pedal being pegged to 100% momentarily. Will try an test his theory.
    That may tie in with my driving techniques and "running-in" the engine over the past few months. Since new last November, 2,000 miles ago, I've refrained from using full throttle - generally only using 1/4 to 3/4-ish due to urban crawl traffic. Only in the last few weeks have I taken the throttle to "100%" and held it there while driving. When first taken to the 100% and held while driving, the car's hesitations and lurchy gear changes did not lessen at all. Only as said, when full press of the throttle with ignition off for 20 secs.

    C.
    VW SCIROCCO 1.4TSI - DSG (MY2010) UK, East Cheshire.
    Build Complete October Wk43/09, Driving 4th November - Wk44/09. Sorted !

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