DSG: Problems, Questions, Likes and Dislikes

[Jonny G60]

Mate i have just bought a MK6 GTI with the magic DSG and i think i will now donate my left leg to science as i no longer need it and will be buying DSG til the day i die!! it is such a smooth shift and is lightning quick! even quicker if you use the lauch control. I had a fully sorted Skyline away from the lights and the bloke looked Pi@@ed that a Euro box had blown him off the line. Yes i agree that the throttle blip is bloody cool and also on the down shift. It can get a bit lumpy off the tap, but mate it's a very small price to pay, for a smooth super fast gear change, you don't lose any of the turbo spool like you would in a floor change box. Go get a DSG and i don't think you will look back in anger.

[adouzzy]

Yes, another DSG thread. I just ordered a Golf 90TSI DSG early this month during the spring sale, and won't pick it up until next month. While waiting, I did some research online on the DSG reliability issues. Here I would like to share my findings here and see whether they match the experience of other owners.

These are the most detailed description of DSG I found:
VW Audi DSG S-tronic FAQ with common DSG problems, the sensor recall, and video reviews
Direct-Shift Gearbox - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And most recent discussion on DSG is "VW China acknowledged issue with DSG..." /forum-replies.cfm?t=1923736

And after read number of threads here, on whirlpool and vwgolf.net.au, I found the reseaon why a DSG broke down is quite mysterious. Some people are totally find after 50kkm while some had horrible experiences within 1 or 2 years of purchase. Since there is no statistical evidence particular on the reliability of DSG, It's really hard to draw any conclusion just based on a very small non-random samples( I am a Stats major......)

However, I am still looking for answers. Up to now, the most convincing explanation to me is that DSG is an automated manual.

A manual is more difficult to drive, not only you need a left foot to control the clutch but you also need to make a lot of decisions to take the right move. A slushbox auto solves these problems with an inefficient torque converter.

Just imagine what if someone drives a manual improperly. What would happen? Probably the clutch splines wear out very soon and then the transmission breakdown. I guess similarly this is why DSGs are so fragile because of improper usage. Of course, I am not blaming the drivers. It is actually the Mechatronics does the shifting. (Manual mode won't help much, since its basically a manual mode for the Mechatronics not for the transmission itself). I guess this is why after all the horrible stories, all VW did is updating the Mechatronics software. The smarter the Mechatronics it is, the less fault shiftings, the less clutch splines wear out, the longer DSG lasts. However, writing a universal software for all the different countries, all the different driving habits is really hard. Therefore, if we drivers can learn how DSG really works, and adapt our driving style to it, the reliability issue would be less severe.

Here are don't I found in different threads, and please correct me if I am wrong. Discussion is warmly welcomed.

1. Don't let the gears shift to often. I would cause overheating and other problems. Use "S" or "M" instead if happens.

2. Minimize the partial clutch engagement time as short as possible.
In the wiki it says, "When the driver releases the foot brake pedal, the k2 clutch pack increases the clamping force, allowing the second gear to take up the drive through an increase of the 'bite point', and therefore transferring the torque from the engine through the transmission to the drive shafts and road wheels — and the vehicle moves forward. Pressing the throttle / accelerator pedal fully engages the clutch and causes an increase of forward vehicle speed. "
I guess consistent partially clutch engagement would cause a lot of damage.
One example is that in a slow traffic, don't just use the break paddle to control the speed, stop and go as a normal auto. I guess during the whole process the clutch is partially engaged.

3. Don't switch to "N" to often, especially in a stop and go traffic. (I am not quite sure about this one.)

4. Shift down gears in a long slow corner. (Not sure either.)

[Ryan_R]

5. Buy the DSG tuning software from Harding Performance.


Most of the issues are from older cars where the 7 speed dry clutch was brand new tech. You'll find Ford Focus owners have the same underlying issues (maybe not any failures yet) but jerky nonetheless. They're now using a new supplier for the mechanical components (clutch pack, etc) for the newer cars and for replacements in older cars.

I had a clutch pack replaced in July and it was ok for a week, if not be virtue of the fact they would've reset the DSG so the adaptation learning had to re-occur). After that low speed shudders came back so booked in for the mechatronics replacement in late August. That made a much better improvement, but in the days following I could tell there was a good chance things could go wrong again (i.e. the fix had just taken me back in time so to speak before the issues first presented themselves when I was under 27,000kms).

So decided to try the DSG software since I was promised a full refund if I wasn't happy and also got a 10% discount, and it's fixed it. On a typical freeway journey to work (occasional stop/start traffic) I would normally get annoyed with the DSG adapting around 20 times, and as a result I was driving in Manual mode everywhere. Now with the tune I find I rarely use it. D is great for normal driving, and S is much better for hooning around town (used to be only good for open country roads and overtaking).

Yes there's definitely a need for residual manual driving skill to get the best out of the DSG, but that's mostly for leaving from a standstill. (I also used VCDS to turn down the hill start assist a notch which has helped a lot, no longer fighting the brakes when moving away which also removed some jerkiness before replacing the mechatronics). The adapting process of the DSG and it's early shift points were the biggest problems for me, and the tune fixed both, so I'm happy to keep the car now whereas I was earlier considering upgrading to a 2nd hand Golf R.

[Sharkie]

Whilst not wanting to put a damper on your new purchase, I do have the following comments ....

I have a DQ500 7spd 550NM DSG (not the Golf version but the newer stronger Tiguan/T5 version) in our 2011 Multivan and have an intense dislike for it. Whilst it has not broken yet, I am expecting it to do so soon, possibly before the warranty runs or shortly therafter which scares me silly .... on average it has missed gears during a change at least once a day and the sound of grating gears when changing is present once a day as well. VW had no solution other than a "software upgrade" which did little to help.

From a drivers perspective, the lag on take-off is very annoying and it is almost always in the wrong gear for the conditions. I used to be very sceptical when the DSG just came out and I was told repeatedly (on this forum and other places) that I was wrong and that I had to own 1 to fully understand and appreciate it. Well, after owning a DSG for 2 years, I still dislike it to the extent that until VW "fixes" its technology, I will not buy another DSG equipped VW. I expected more from a $65K vehicle to be honest.

I don't doubt that HP's DSG tune will improve it dramatiaclly, but for a Multivan (and any non-performance VW) I see little point in spending $$$ on that and very likely voiding any VW warranty on it in the process. If I had a DSG Golf R, I'd take the chance though ....

We also have a manual GTI and it is a relevation every time we drive it after having driven the DSG van .... I enjoy making my own decisions and being in control of the appropriate gear selection and application if, how and when I desire ..... may not be as quick trough the gears but there'd be little in it anyway and it does not give me the same sleepless nights the DSG does.

[jamesatfish]

Interesting thoughts on the DSG and adapting your driving style to suit the transmission.

Everything adouzzy mentioned about driving style in my mind applies to a robotised manual transmission (such as the 'e-gear' or F1 gearbox systems in various Italian cars) rather than a DSG. In those vehicles there is a definite art to driving the car and it's certainly not a matter of treating it like a traditional automatic just because it only has 2 pedals.

My only experience with DSG to date has been VW - our 07 Caddy TDI and 08 Golf TDI. Both of those certainly exhibit some DSG quirks (such as hesitation off the line or difficulty reversing up an incline) but for the most part people just get in and drive them like an automatic with no issues.

That said, if you do consider that a DSG is a robotised (automated) manual then I'm not sure I agree about not shifting into N. On my e-gear car it is encouraged behaviour to shift the transmission into N as you're coming to a standstill and only re-engage 1 when ready to move off, as removes the possibility of the computer trying to slip the clutch at slow speeds to prevent bunny hopping.

This is even more important in stop-start traffic - basically the issue is that a very small lift on the brake pedal whilst still stationary might cause the computer to start feeding in the clutch even though the vehicle is not moving, which obviously is not good for clutch life. I would imagine that the only downside to doing the same in a DSG is needing to physically move the gear lever into N and back into D (the e-gear car does this directly via the paddles) but I can't see how using N would adversely affect the lifespan of the DSG gearbox.

[Transporter]

Then I suggest the extended warranty or sell it when the warranty runs out or before.

Sent from my GT-N8000 using Tapatalk 2

[DoggieHowser]

I havent had any issues with my Tiguan's DQ500 gearbox except for the lethargic response when moving off but that's quite normal for DSG.

[Mountainman]

I would love to be able to buy a DSG Golf as my next replacement car but my brother's experience with his 95,000km 118 TSI DSG tells me I'd be crazy to. As a new car both engine and gearbox were a delightful fascination and appeared to live up to VW's claims. However a replaced clutch pack, replaced mechatronics with roadside failures for both and now new pistons and rings for a detonating engine that has only ever been run on 98RON petrol seems to mimic the horror stories. Who wants to have the unreliability hassles under warranty for a car that you won't dare try owning once the warranty runs out? And why pay more for extended warranty in the first place. It must be costing VW a fortune for the customers to be the technical development bunnies. And what a contrast to my sister's Honda Accord Euro that was purchased at the same time! A manual that not only drives better but has also been a dream to own - 100% reliable with a similar mileage and not even yet needing replacement brake pads (unlike the Golf's at 45,000km).

[lankfert]

I was a bit scared while waiting to take ownership of my GTI. It had 92,000kms when i bought it and only after putting a deposit down on it did i read all the horror stories. I have now done 12,000kms in my car and have not had one single problem with the DSG.

I think it really is a bit of bad luck but you never hear about all the OK cars that have been sold out of the many thousands without any problems.

There are some traits i do not like about the DSG. Reversing up a hill, Waiting for kickdown do reach a lower gear, S mode etc but i have learnt to deal with and compromise. It really isn't that big of a deal, just a different gearbox design with it's flaws just like any other.

I am considering buying a new GTI in the next year or so and would not hesitate at all in getting another DSG.

[Mountainman]

Yes but 12,000km? Hardly run in and my brother's didn't start its run of trouble until the mechatronics started playing up at around 30,000km. Also yours is the 6 speed. And all the "OK" cars? I haven't seen anyone yet bragging about their 118TSI with 7 speed DSG making it to 100,000km without engine and gearbox needing minor surgery, let alone the major stuff we are hearing about daily. My Golf and Forester (and Forester before that) are serviced at the same VW/Subaru dealer workshop. Talk to the mechanics there and you will soon realize what model to avoid if you want relatively trouble free motoring. It seems like the 103TDI with manual are the VW with the best reputation and guess which model VW has dropped from its Golf line up? Yep, that's it.