Depress Clutch to Start - Manual cars

[wai]

In a DSG, you'll have to leave the gear lever in Park before you can remove the key...

I know. I have had to turn the ignition back on and off when I have failed to remember this. Why I mentioned this is because I understand it is an offence NOT to have your manual gearbox car in gear when you park it. My younger brother did not like doing this and ended up with his car about 50 m down the road against a power pole because he did not set the hand brake correctly and left it in neutral. The police were called (Victoria) and he received a penalty notice for failing to have the transmission in gear.

Going by VW's push to take over everything "safety", I would not be surprised to see this a feature of the company that brought you the "bug"

[Corey_R]

Well, it's not just VW's push.

The entire industry is moving towards all these features. Some of the "nannys" which have been mentioned in this thread are now required by law (i.e. the ESP), others are adding to the "points" which tally up for the "star rating" in the NCAP crash tests etc. Each time EuroNCAP move the goal posts, manufacturers need to add safety features to retain a 5 star rating.

[brimway]

I know. I have had to turn the ignition back on and off when I have failed to remember this. Why I mentioned this is because I understand it is an offence NOT to have your manual gearbox car in gear when you park it. My younger brother did not like doing this and ended up with his car about 50 m down the road against a power pole because he did not set the hand brake correctly and left it in neutral. The police were called (Victoria) and he received a penalty notice for failing to have the transmission in gear.

Going by VW's push to take over everything "safety", I would not be surprised to see this a feature of the company that brought you the "bug"

Are you serious? Do you have to have your car in gear when parked?

[wai]

Are you serious? Do you have to have your car in gear when parked?

Yes for a manual.

Maybe someone who has gone for their licence in a manual recently can confirm this, but the daughter of a cousin of mine was failed when she sat her driving test because of this. There were a couple of other things as well, but two points mentioned were that she did not have the front wheels turned towards the kerb when parked on a hill (during the driving test), and then when she got back to the registry and she parked the car, the examiner asked her to secure the car, and she did not put the manual into 1st. This was also noted as a point of failure.

But apart from a driving test situation, you should never rely on the parking brake only to imobilise a vehicle. In an automatic, you have Park which introduces a mechanical block in the driveline. The closest to this in a manual is to engage 1st. Going back 40 years now, this is also what I was taught to do.

[wai]

Well, it's not just VW's push.

The entire industry is moving towards all these features. Some of the "nannys" which have been mentioned in this thread are now required by law (i.e. the ESP), others are adding to the "points" which tally up for the "star rating" in the NCAP crash tests etc. Each time EuroNCAP move the goal posts, manufacturers need to add safety features to retain a 5 star rating.

Unfortunately you are right here. It is self sustaining where manufacturers feel they MUST get a good score and so do whatever the scorers demand, no matter how absurd it might be. These scores have become big business and manufacturers are afraid that if they do not fall into line they will have fewer sales.

And you know, not all of what is now mandated necessarily makes cars safer. I remember a British driving instructor saying that he wished every car had a dagger where the steering wheel air bag was. Drivers would try and make sure that it never deployed. An air bag on the other hand sounds soft and welcoming (until you see the damage one can actually do), and so some drivers take additional risks believing they will have a soft pillow to protect them. The same for things like ESP, ABS, TCS, and the like. Instead of teaching drivers how to avoid getting into such situations (you notice I did not say how to get out of situations as to teach you how to get out of them you have to teach them how to get into them in the first place), we have technology to nanny you. These features are great, once you have learned to drive properly. It also causes issues when you get into a car without them. Can you imagine licences where it is not just endorsed for manual or automatic, but also ESP, ABS, TCS, etc!

[Transporter]

I don't get it.
You already know that it is safe to put the manual gearbox in the 1st gear when you park the car, so why do you have problem with starting the engine with the clutch depressed? You know what happen when you start with the first gear engaged and you didn't depress the clutch, don't you?

[brimway]

Yes for a manual.

Maybe someone who has gone for their licence in a manual recently can confirm this, but the daughter of a cousin of mine was failed when she sat her driving test because of this. There were a couple of other things as well, but two points mentioned were that she did not have the front wheels turned towards the kerb when parked on a hill (during the driving test), and then when she got back to the registry and she parked the car, the examiner asked her to secure the car, and she did not put the manual into 1st. This was also noted as a point of failure.

But apart from a driving test situation, you should never rely on the parking brake only to imobilise a vehicle. In an automatic, you have Park which introduces a mechanical block in the driveline. The closest to this in a manual is to engage 1st. Going back 40 years now, this is also what I was taught to do.

Surely your daughter's cousin did something else wrong in order to fail! And just to correct you, the closest gear to "park" in a manual transmission car in respect of gearing, is reverse. Reverse, being a lower gear, will hold the car better than first gear.

[Corey_R]

There is nothing in the NSW Road Users Handbook about having to turn the wheels into the kerb...

There is about having to put the car in gear. Obviously, Auto's have to be put into park. But manuals need to be put into 1st or reverse, depending on which way the hill goes. Oddly, it's reversed to how I remember it being, and how I understand a gearbox would operate.

The gears are engaged either in first gear for downhill, reverse for uphill.

If you're facing downhill, I would put the car in reverse so that the gearbox wouldn't let the car roll forward (being that it shouldn't let the engine turn in the wrong direction). Likewise, if you were facing uphill, I'd put the car in 1st so it wouldn't roll backwards.

[Banzai]

yeah well that's not really saying much. i guess what i meant was, if you were going to take only one gearbox, i would bet my left nut that the DSG would be a far more popular option. guess it just shows that they're stretched for production and the US is just getting what's left over. which in itself is interesting.

Perhaps VW US don't trust the reliability of the DSG and wanted to avoid potential lawsuits and warranty claims.

I know. I have had to turn the ignition back on and off when I have failed to remember this. Why I mentioned this is because I understand it is an offence NOT to have your manual gearbox car in gear when you park it.

News to me but I got my license a very long time ago. I do however consider it common sense most of the time. There are countries where "touch" parking is common and you definitely don't want to leave cars in gear.

Also, when cars were less reliable I actually showed people how to use the starter motor to "drive" a car out of a dangerous situation. Those few metres could be the difference between being in the middle of the road and safely at or on the kerb, especially when the car is too heavy to push. Can't do that with the clutch depressed.

This also leads me to ask Can you clutch start a new Golf? Might have to try it one day.

There is nothing in the NSW Road Users Handbook about having to turn the wheels into the kerb...

If you're facing downhill, I would put the car in reverse so that the gearbox wouldn't let the car roll forward (being that it shouldn't let the engine turn in the wrong direction). Likewise, if you were facing uphill, I'd put the car in 1st so it wouldn't roll backwards.

Again, wheels to kerb is common sense not just for rolling but also to make the car a bit harder to steal.

An engine will rotate in whatever direction you tell it and there are some that will start in the reverse direction. There have been cars made that didn't have reverse gear. Instead you had to switch off the engine, switch the starter to reverse and then restart the engine. Multiple reverse gears! Lightburn Zeta is the first that springs to mind here.

[VW Convert]

I reckon they should change the name of this forum to VWWW VW Watercooled Whingers.

Strike me pink, VAG put a safety device in a car (one that makes good sense) and people complain about it, no doubt if it were not fitted, people would complain about that too.

Get a life guys, if this is a major bone of contention, go buy a car that doesn't have this feature and then complain about all the good features in VWs that are missing on the ToyoForMitHold whatever it is you buy.



Cheers

George