Delay on take-off (DSG)

[cameronp]

I've been driving my Golf 6 TDI DSG for about 6 months now. Yesterday I jumped into a Golf 6 118 DSG courtesy car for the day. I noticed a couple of differences. The delay mentioned in this thread was very noticeable on the 118's 7 speed DSG compared with the TDI's 6 speed DSG. Secondly, when the hill hold feature releases automatically (1.5 seconds after you take your foot off the brake) the 118 rolls backwards. This was a big surprise the first time it happened as the TDI always has the clutch biting when the hill hold releases, and always creeps forward on even the steepest hills.
The 118 was fun for the day. Its a bit quieter, even though the engine appears much busier than in the TDI. I did miss that sensation of limitless torque the TDI gives as the turbocharger kicks in though.

Interesting comment about the hill hold. I haven't ever been game to leave my Golf for long enough to actually start rolling back, though I've noticed if you try to take off quickly from a steep hill it'll roll back a centimetre or so. Not enough to be dangerous in a normal situation, but enough that if it was a human L-plater taking a driving test in a manual they'd get an instant fail. However, if you're slowing down to almost-stationary speeds on a hill, and then lift off the brake, the car will crawl forwards rather than roll back.

The torque band on diesels has always felt really weird to me. Gutless below 1500rpm, wonderful power to 3000rpm, but then the fun's all over.

Diesels have much more torque, much lower down. There's a hill outside my work which in my friends Focus diesel manual (2L ~100kw & 320NM) can go up it 'idling' in 2nd gear with him and myself in it. My Polo GTI Manual (Stage 1, 154kw & 328NM) can JUST get up it 'idling' in 1st gear if its only me in the car), a Golf 2.0 FSI manual (110kw & 220NM) instantly stalls...
This is why your TDI will creep forward but a 118TSI will instantly roll back.

Are you sure that isn't partly because the ECU in the Focus manual is gently applying throttle for you? Some diesels do this as an anti-stall measure, because dropping below idle will cause the engine to stop instantly rather than cough and splutter like a petrol. I found the 103TDI Golf very easy to stall, for instance.

[sillygogo]

There are few things to try to minimise the lag:

Put in 1 and push it back to D once the car is moving.
Other members suggest APR stage 1.
The recent "recall-like" software update, reduced the lag significantly for me.

Hill Hold assist will hold for about 1 sec then will roll on a hill.

The TDi has significant higher torque and thus will creep forward when release of the brake, well thats what VW told me anyway, it could be because of the DSG6 instead of DSG7.

[G-rig]

Unfortunately the manual was not an option (as this is mainly my wife's daily driver). I was lucky to even get the 118TSI approved by her!

From all accounts the DSG is the better box in the MK6..

[Corey_R]

Just to check .... would a stage 1 chip on the 118 reduce this delay at all e.g. can the remap adjust the gearbox timings?

Again, as I explained the ECU flash does NOT change anything in the DSG. However, the DSG adjusts based on driving style and the power/torque/road speed etc. So the fact that you have a Stage I and more power and torque for given throttle position will mean an adjustment in the way the DSG reacts. Of course, putting your foot down slightly more will also cause it to react differently. Why don't you go to an APR distributor and get the trial flash put on your car? It's free....

Are you sure that isn't partly because the ECU in the Focus manual is gently applying throttle for you? Some diesels do this as an anti-stall measure, because dropping below idle will cause the engine to stop instantly rather than cough and splutter like a petrol. I found the 103TDI Golf very easy to stall, for instance.

Not sure to be honest. You can still stall the Focus manual if you don't use the clutch properly on take off, but I obviously can't confirm that the ECU isn't doing anything to assist in the situation I described.

[prise]

This is why your TDI will creep forward but a 118TSI will instantly roll back.

Actually the reason for the creep with the TDI is not the torque, but the design of the gearbox. The 103TDI uses the 6speed box with wet plate clutches that are partially engaged and allow the car to creep. The dry plate clutches in the 7spd box in the 118TSI do not start to engage until the brake is released or the accelerator is depressed - hence the more noticeable delay and roll back. Also the amount or torque that can be transmitted through a slipping dry plate clutches without overheating it is less.

I don't know if you've driven a 118TSI manual, but the amount of torque available off idle is significant - enough to chirp the front tyres if the right foot is buried.

[CrimDub]

I wasn't happy with the lag either, when i first got my 118 tsi wagon a few week ago. I also wasn't cool with how the dsg changed into 2nd almost as soon as you started to move forward. It created a really wonky kind of ride until you got going, then from 2nd-7th it would be smooth as.
I was reading some posts on another thread here, that mentioned a method of resetting the dsg by pressing the accelerator all the way down for 10-20 seconds with the key out and the car at operating temp. thought it would be a long shot but gave it a go. Once you do the reset it then said to teach the dsg by driving through the gears 1st-7th and then slow down so it changes back down through the gears again to 1st ,then cruise along in 1st for 100mtrs or so.

To my surprise, it worked!!!! so stoked with the difference, no where near as much lag when taking off and I actually get to rev out 1st gear now...... makes sense if you think about it, the dsg learns how you drive right? so if the only people that have driven you new car before you get it are the guys loading and unloading it what do you think the dsg has learned? food for thought....

[prise]

My 118 DSG took a week or so of driving before the takeoff became consistent. Its got 5000+ ks on it now and the lag is now negligible. I didn't bother with the procedure you followed. I wonder how much is me getting used to the car although I've had regular auto drivers drive it since who had no problems driving it smoothly.

[Cossor]

Now that's really worth knowing
Cant wait car to arrive. (will be MY11, arrive September!)

[mattyf83]

i find there is a delay when switching from drive to reverse, which is not great when rolling downhill towards a gutter, it means you have to fully stop when doing a 3 point turn on a hill, or risk smashing front bar into gutter.

[DeanoTDI]

My 103TDI had a bad delay and a thump from 2nd to 3rd on full acceleration about a month ago. When i got the car serviced VW did a DSG reset, then reported no problems. I agreed and even noticed the throttle was much more responsive, It seems to have worn out though, they asked to report back so I will let them know the thump is gone but the throttle lag is noticable again, which may mean just another simple DSG reset.