Reply With QuoteFind someone to log it with vcds. Timing retard.
Volkswagen Enthusiast
Hey all,
I have issues with my golf R underperforming of late.
It seems to be when the air temp is at or above 25 degrees, under load the car feels like a dog on the freeway in 4th/5th W.O.T, like the engine timing is being heavily retarded.
I've tried logging boost with a cheap Bluetooth adapter and the Torque app.
Car had a Stage 1 APR tune, no other mods.
As November came along performance seemed down, this was actually after installing a new clutch with SMFW.
Trying to improve it, I changed the DV to a GFB DV+
Then I added a Volant intake
I put in a new PCV valve (there was some diaphragm bypass)
Changed spark plugs and gapped at 0.028"
Then autotech HPFP (and new cam follower), and changed software to Stage 1+
Still little improvement.
Then today I had a new N75 put in while my timing belt and water pump was done.
The mechanics commented that it felt fine yesterday (when it was 20deg), but it didn't feel like it was boosting right today (25 degrees). I had the exact thoughts as them, it felt beautiful driving yesterday morning, and a dog this afternoon.
I've attached some plots of the boost.
As you can see, it's kind of all over the shop.
Sometimes it struggles to climb, other times it overshoots and drops very rapidly to around 17psi before picking up again.
I've had it smoke tested briefly, but no-one seems to offer pressure testing so I'm thinking of making a DIY pressure tester.
What can I log to help diagnose this problem?
I can't seem to be able to log requested/actual boost on this Torque app, but I might try get a ross tech cable this weekend.
My thoughts on what it could be:
Cat is partially blocked?
A temp sensor is out?
Map sensor?
MAF sensor?
Hose/boost leak?
Knock sensor?
Carbon buildup on intake manifold?
Whatever it is, it seems quite dependent on ambient air temp, however cooler temps could just be masking the problem due to more power, as the boost still seems inconsistent at lower temps.
Cheers!
P.S I'm in the Sydney area (north) if anyone has any mechanics they specifically know are good at logging and diagnosing these hard to troubleshoot issues (preferably an APR dealer).
PPS. With the SMFW in, it caused the whole cabin to vibrate.
I couldn't stand it and went back to a DMF after a few months. Fortunately the mechanic refunded.
I never heard back if the clutch was unbalanced, or if maybe my engine vibrates a bit more than normal and hence doesn't like the SMFW.
The reason I mention this, is if my engine vibrates a bit more for some reason, this could potentially cause issues with the knock sensor?
Last edited by McDub; 12-03-2020 at 07:34 PM.
Dub Crazy
VWwA Super Moderator
Find someone to log it with vcds. Timing retard.
Volkswagen Enthusiast
Yeah it looks like it's out around 8 degrees at WOT on the plots above, I presume that's significant?Originally Posted by h100vw
Any recommendations for people in Sydney? From memory you're down south a bit (you had a stab at a similar issue of mine on my old MKIV gti actually!)
I might borrow a friends ross-tech cable this weekend if you can suggest things that are worth logging.
I imagine logging requested boost/actual will be pretty key?
Dub Crazy
VWwA Super Moderator
8 degrees would be like someone put 91 in it. Any chance it has contaminated fuel. Could be many things though. I'd put the car back as standard as possible. Certainly the airbox.
Check the fuel trims though, block 032 with VCDS. I have seen Volant intake throw trims out.
Volkswagen Enthusiast
I've tried changing who I've used for fuel and no difference.
Today it was cool again, but ran like a dog, so doesn't seem to be air temp affected.
I've now got a ross-tech cable and will be doing the logs that APR request for trouble shooting.
APR - VCDS Datalogging Guide
As my tune is meant to be for an intake and HPFP, I think i'll leave it as is, however I was suggested to put the original DV back on.
Just need to find somewhere safe to do the pulls!
Super Moderator
VWwA Super Moderator
If you are in Nth Sydney - hit the M1 heading toward central coast after 9pm to do some 4th gear pulls.
Volkswagen Enthusiast
4th gear, what's that 140km/hr at redline?
Bit tricky doing that on a road that you can't scope for cops hiding though. Would prefer a stretch where I can loop a U-turn with both sides visible. Hmmm. Or maybe just do 3rd gear pulls on the M1 (about 105km/h?). But yeah 4th gear would be preferable
Super Moderator
VWwA Super Moderator
3rd gear will work but i think they prefer 4th gear pulls as the VCDS will get more reference points while the engine revs. I use an industrial estate that's close by to do my logs - at least once its after business hours it gets pretty quiet in there.
My Mk6 R did about 96kph in 2nd so 3rd would be prob 110-120kph.
Last edited by Lucas_R; 13-03-2020 at 01:27 PM.
Volkswagen Enthusiast
Hmmm so 4th gear is looking like jail speeds
A non-public rd would be great, otherwise it's looking like 3rd.
My hunch is knock sensors at this stage.
The SMF I had put in when this problem presented could have caused damage to them.
I've heard they are quite sensitive to their required tightening torque, and no doubt also to vibration I imagine.
The only thing is the mechanics I've spoken say this isn't common.
I did find this mechanic from Ecuador who replaced everything on two cars until he replaced their knock sensors which fixed the problem:
Vw Golf GTI MKV 2.0TFSI unusual fail "HELP"
Sounds potentially very similar, including the inconsistent nature. I'll see if my logs compare to his.
Last edited by McDub; 13-03-2020 at 04:07 PM.
Volkswagen Enthusiast
Managed all 5 of the APR runs/rounds tonight.
Car actually felt OK unfortunately, so I may need to redo when it's feeling a bit worse.
Although I rarely redline my car so hard have good judgement here.
Here's a "round 5" in 3rd:
Boost requested seems to be very close to actual
Here's the "round 2" in 4th:Code:STAMP Engine Speed - (G28) Mass Air Flow - Sensor (G70) Throttle Valve Angle Ignition - Timing Angle Timing Retardation - Cylinder 1 Timing Retardation - Cylinder 2 Timing Retardation - Cylinder 3 Timing Retardation - Cylinder 4 Lambda Control - Bank 1 (actual) Boost Pressure - Control (N75) Boost Pressure - (specified) Boost Pressure - (actual) /min g/s % °BTDC °KW °KW °KW °KW % mbar mbar 0.48 2040 7 5.1 -6.8 0 0 0 0 1.99 0 280 1030 1.12 1360 4.39 3.5 -9 0 0 0 0 1.99 0 260 1020 1.78 1880 5.61 4.3 -6.8 0 0 0 0 1.99 0 270 1010 2.43 1640 5.19 3.9 -8.3 0 0 0 0 1.99 0 270 1010 3.06 1680 27.81 26.3 18.8 -4.5 -1.5 0 -0.8 1.99 0 1460 990 3.71 1840 37.72 99.6 19.5 -2.3 0 -0.8 0 0.95 33.3 1690 1080 4.37 2080 47.61 99.6 17.3 0 -0.8 -0.8 0 0.99 33.7 1690 1230 5.01 2360 63.03 99.6 12.8 0 0 0 0 0.95 36.5 1880 1420 5.65 2720 85.25 99.6 9 -0.8 0 -2.3 -2.3 0.97 51.8 2080 1650 6.3 3120 130.33 99.6 6 0 0 -1.5 -2.3 0.9 64.3 2290 2060 6.99 3640 175.19 99.6 6.8 0 0 0 0 0.88 56.1 2360 2420 7.64 4240 186.58 99.6 7.5 0 0 -1.5 0 0.88 56.9 2430 2450 8.28 4760 209.08 99.6 9 0 0 0 0 0.87 60 2490 2440 8.92 5240 228.69 99.6 8.3 0 -1.5 -1.5 -1.5 0.86 65.9 2460 2470 9.58 5720 244 99.6 11.3 0 -2.3 0 -2.3 0.8 74.5 2360 2500 10.23 6160 245.97 99.2 15 0 0 0 0 0.79 73.3 2230 2390 10.89 6560 250.31 98.8 15 0 0 0 -1.5 0.77 67.5 2130 2310
Anything to make of that?Code:STAMP Engine Speed - (G28) Ignition - Timing Angle Timing Retardation - Cylinder 1 Timing Retardation - Cylinder 2 Timing Retardation - Cylinder 3 Timing Retardation - Cylinder 4 Lambda Control - Bank 1 (actual) Accel. Pedal Pos. - Sensor 1 (G79) Engine Load - (actual Value) Boost Pressure - (actual) Rail Pressure - (actual) /min °BTDC °KW °KW °KW °KW % % mbar bar 0.09 1600 23.3 0 0 0 0 0.96 99.6 70.7 1010 89.29 0.49 1680 16.5 0 0 -3.8 0 0.98 99.6 83.5 1000 94.9 0.87 1760 18.8 -3 0 -2.3 0 1.02 99.6 88.7 1070 104.36 1.31 1840 18.8 -1.5 -1.5 -0.8 -0.8 0.98 99.6 95.5 1170 106.53 1.72 1920 18 -3.8 -1.5 -1.5 0 0.95 99.6 100.8 1240 108.88 2.11 2040 12 -2.3 0 -2.3 -1.5 0.95 99.6 107.5 1310 110.56 2.53 2160 11.3 0 0 -0.8 0 0.95 99.6 116.5 1390 113.5 2.92 2240 10.5 -0.8 0 0 0 0.99 99.6 123.3 1470 114.18 3.33 2400 9.8 -1.5 -0.8 -0.8 -2.3 0.98 99.6 131.6 1560 114.19 3.73 2520 9.8 -1.5 -2.3 0 -0.8 0.95 99.6 142.1 1670 115.44 4.14 2680 6 0 -0.8 -3 -1.5 0.91 99.6 155.6 1800 115.17 4.53 2840 7.5 0 -0.8 -3 0 0.91 99.6 176.7 1970 115.73 4.94 3000 3 0 -2.3 -3.8 -2.3 0.89 99.6 191.7 2200 116.05 5.34 3200 4.5 -2.3 -0.8 -3.8 -0.8 0.89 99.6 191.7 2430 116.75 5.75 3400 6 -0.8 0 -2.3 0 0.89 99.6 191.7 2410 117.39 6.17 3560 6.8 0 0 -0.8 0 0.88 99.6 191.7 2380 114.72 6.56 3760 6.8 0 0 0 0 0.88 99.6 191.7 2390 116.8 6.98 3960 6.8 0 0 0 0 0.88 99.6 191.7 2420 116.18 7.42 4160 7.5 0 0 0 0 0.86 99.6 191.7 2410 115.81 7.81 4280 7.5 0 -1.5 0 0 0.85 99.6 191.7 2410 115.51 8.23 4480 8.3 0 -2.3 0 0 0.86 99.6 191.7 2430 114.92 8.62 4640 7.5 -1.5 -0.8 0 -0.8 0.86 99.6 191.7 2450 114.01 9.04 4800 9 0 0 0 0 0.85 99.6 191.7 2490 115.22 9.47 4960 9 0 0 0 0 0.86 99.6 191.7 2500 118.52 9.87 5080 7.5 -1.5 -3 -0.8 -0.8 0.84 99.6 191.7 2520 112.92 10.37 5240 6.8 -2.3 -1.5 0 -2.3 0.82 99.6 191.7 2500 113.84 10.76 5400 6.8 -0.8 -2.3 -1.5 -0.8 0.8 99.6 191.7 2540 121.18 11.19 5520 10.5 0 -1.5 0 0 0.8 99.6 191.7 2550 125.85 11.61 5640 9.8 0 -2.3 -0.8 -1.5 0.8 99.6 191.7 2530 122.11 11.99 5760 12 0 -3.8 0 -2.3 0.78 99.6 191.7 2510 116.83 12.37 5880 11.3 -1.5 -2.3 -1.5 -0.8 0.77 99.6 191.7 2490 121.98 12.8 6000 9.8 0 -3.8 0 -2.3 0.77 99.6 190.2 2450 119.99 13.22 6120 11.3 0 -5.3 0 -3.8 0.78 99.6 186.5 2410 112.28 13.7 6120 33 0 0 0 0 0.84 0 16.5 2230 128.16 14.14 6040 33 0 0 0 0 0.95 0 17.3 1330 129.59 14.55 5800 33 0 0 0 0 1.05 0 18 1180 126.17 14.95 5560 6 0 0 0 0 1.27 0 18 1130 87.4
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