Engineer's certificate for remap ?

[gregozedobe]

I was talking to a person in ACT registration about remapping an engine ECU (for more power and torque). His job is to deal with "technical" issues relating to roadworthiness and registration, so he's not an ignorant help desk person that doesn't know the regulations.

He was adamant that for any recently manufactured cars to remain legally registered, the owner would need to get an engineer's certificate stating that after the modification the car still complied with all relevant ADRs.

As well as an assessment of braking and handling capability, this would include passing the "IM240" emissions test (apparantly done with a warm engine to a set pattern on a dyno, and not available in Canberra).

He further said that a type or generic approval was not acceptable, and that the certification and testing had to be done on my individual vehicle after the modification.

Do other states have this requirement ? He said it was part of the "National Code Of Practice for Light Vehicle Construction and Modification (NCOP)" and that all states were (or should be) adopting this.

page 29 of VSB 14 on the following link gives more details http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roa...tin/index.aspx

He (and other state registration authorities) are quite aware that many people are remapping for more power, but at the moment detection and enforcement is not a high priority for them. He expects that if there are some high speed crashes of remapped cars it will suddenly become a political priority and they will clamp down on the practice.

Has anyone actually bothered to get an engineer's certificate for a remap ?

From reading the NCOP document and discussions with the gentleman I mentioned above, it seems to me that without a certificate a remapped car is technically unroadworthy, with all the unpleasant ramifications of that unhappy state (legality, insurance). I don't think I'm comfortable with being unroadworthy, even if the chance of being found out is minimal.

Or have I misinterpreted something significant somewhere ?

[gareth_oau]

hmmm, sounds like a minefield. i'd suggest that what he told you was what he had to say. But in reality, the whole world lives by a different set of rules.

I recently bought my car in Qld and transported it to Perth. it had to go over the pits for inspection before initial registration. I stated at the time it had aftermarket exhaust, remap and DV. He took it for a spin, and then gave it back with a big grin on his face, and it was registered with no questions asked.

Having said that, in Perth, once a car is registered it never gets inspected again, no green slips or annual checkups (unless the car is defected by police if you are pulled over for something dodgy) - our system seems a bit gentler than yours

[DaveMack]

I think if they tried to enforce that at this late stage ... 10 -> 20% of new vehicles (less than 5 years old) would be put off the roads for something that could be considered 'trivial'.

Statistics would, more than likely, have brought to light any increase in fatalities / crashes of 'ECU-doctored' vehicles by now ... if it was going to happen at all. Maniacs will still drive like maniacs whether they have a 'chipped' car or not and I don't think 'chipping' cars is likely to change the overall percentage of drivers like that.

My .02c.

Cheers,
Dave

[bazzle]

Drivers skills aside chipping and remapping, exhaust, inlets mods etc have been an area for a while now where you can be challenged due to changing the emissions requirements etc of a motor vehicle. This may be illegal unless accompanied by proper testing and recertification to show where certain ADR requirements are met.

I too would be worried re being roadworthy and and the implications if challenged by a state authority let alone being wiped by an insurance company.

All they normally say is that your car must be roadworthy even if you have notified them. Easy for them to find an out.

[Logzy]

What a load of crap.
An engineers certificate would be required if you were perhaps doubling the power and torque output of the engine.
In this case the engine would then be putting out more than what the chassis structure, brakes and rest of the car are designed to withstand.

To say a remap requires an engineers certificate without knowing the revised output figures is rubbish IMO.

[Tim]

What a load of crap.
An engineers certificate would be required if you were perhaps doubling the power and torque output of the engine.
In this case the engine would then be putting out more than what the chassis structure, brakes and rest of the car are designed to withstand.

To say a remap requires an engineers certificate without knowing the revised output figures is rubbish IMO.

to deviate from the factory map may deviate from the factory emmissions. Thats probly why they would want it engineered. You have to get an aftermarket ECU engineered. I dont see the difference other than no-one will ever know.

[Russ59]

Sounds more like another grab by the government for the working man's cash to me.

[Transporter]

It can get very interesting, considering that every engine is made to deliver

certain amount of power, lets say max 130kW, software will keep it at 125kW, this is

to allow for different driving condition. Over the time engine wears out a bit and

engine produces less power as well (with some changes in emissions). Than someone

puts the re-flashed ECU or chip and belts the cr*p of that engine - the car is not complying with ADR anymore and for sure the

emissions will be out of specs, so IMO it is the right step.

If you want more power get different model - with more power where the engine power is

matched to brakes, suspension, transmission etc. In short the car is made to handle that power.

[gerhard]

Yeah, a gov't grab for cash....

How would a "working man" feel when his insurance claim is denied due to not forking out a couple of hundred for the certificate.

A "working man" shouldn't be able to afford a flash anyway, it's for the pleasure of men who don't work..........

Back on topic, technically it's correct that a change to engine emissions would require re-compliance with ADRs. In reality it'll probably never be found out, unless you blow so much black smoke from a re-map that it chokes the breathalyser operator ......

[mrx]

I had an engineer's certificate for a rally car I used to own. The "engineer" didn't seem to care about the modifications to the engine & suspension components, emissions, etc. His concern was the welding on the roll cage and the anchoring points for the harnesses & seats.

You really can't miss a rally car with it's fancy paint job, ridiculously large red mudflaps & the number on the side. Unless you've got your road car decked out in a similar attention seeking fashion, then I personally wouldn't bother with the certificate.

If people are really that paranoid about getting "busted" for their ECU reflash, then perhaps it really isn't for them. Also, if the dealerships of the car manufacturer can't even detect your ECU reflash, then what chance does a government department (which doesn't know the specifics of every ECU on the road) have?